German wines and the Rieslings that make them. - Episode #70

August 14, 2006

2004 Von Hovel Qba Riesling

2004 Willi Haag Brauneberger Juffer Riesling Kabinett

2003 Johann Haart Piesporter Goldtropfchen Riesling Spatlese

2004 St.urbans Hof Ockfener Bockstein Auslese Riesling

Today Gary talks about the QMP,QBA and many other things that have to do with German wines. Watch as Gary goes through the wines and gives you his thoughts.

84 Responses

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1. about 4 months ago

   The Fanjestic

   Trust WS & GV the most and WE the least. But if used as a guide, the reviewers are great, used as the bible - well that’s just horrible!

2. about 6 months ago

   Scott

   Great episode: highly informative. I knew all the terms before but did not really realize their significance. Thanks.

   I think the similarities are far more common than the differences between different reviewers so I don’t have a favorite or least favorite. You’re not too bad I guess.

3. about 6 months ago

   Kristen

   I was always confused by the German ratings. Really informative episode.

   QOTD: I really don’t listen to reviewers. I only bought my first Wine Spectator magazine this weekend. And I listen to your tasting notes, not just your scores. I preach the Gary gospel- trust your own palette!

4. about 10 months ago

   WA Ambassador

   Riesling is my favorite white wine. Thanks for doing an episode on it. My favorite riesling that I have ever had was a 2005 ST. M. It’s from Chateau St. Michelle, but it was imported from Germany. I brought it to Christmas dinner along with one a 2005 riesling from Columbia Crest. There was no comparison! The St. M was off the chart and was massively a better wine than the CC. I couldn’t believe the dramatic difference that you could taste between them. The St. M was smooth, fruity, and sweet, while the CC was dry, lots of tannin and not very good flavor. For about $12, you can’t go wrong with the ST. M.

5. about 10 months ago

   Eric Nyeste

   We were half-expecting another scavenger hunt. To answer your QOTD:

   You are perfect to trust for many reasons. Primarily: You profit from wine sales (clean motive) and you tell us not to trust you (and trust ourselves).

   Robert Parker is a sham.

6. about 12 months ago

   David Canada

   I love seeing you pronounce all of the german names….killer
   QOTD - Favorite - Neal Martin
   Least Favorite - Parker, specifically on California and australia. I have tried more parker 90’s from those areas that were overoaked fruitbombs then I care to talk about. he needs to stick to Bordeaux and Rhone.

7. about 12 months ago

   James Leviton

   I have enjoyed the episodes I have watched so far.

   However, I think you concentrate on wines that are too expensive.

   I sure cannot afford $50 to $100 bottles of California cabernet; I cannot afford $35 bottles of German Riesling either.

   What I am interested in are bottles of wine priced at $20 or less which taste like a much more expensive wine.

8. about 12 months ago

   Mark L

   Gary, I wasn’t going to be as harsh as Tom, but I second the motion - Learn some basic German pronunciation. 85-90% of my cellar is German wines. Also, you didn’t comment on longevity. Yes, it’s fun to taste and drink young wines, but some wines that were marginal when young aged into truly regal beauties. Other than tastings, I seldom drink a Riesling until it is 5-7 years old.

9. about 13 months ago

   Tom

   Please, please, please, take a podcast course in German or something. Your pronunciation is horrendous. Really, you’re raping the language.

10. about 17 months ago

    Tim Halberg

    Thought 69 was hilarious man!!! seriously, good comedy! Some people just don’t have a sense of humor!

    I was looking forward to hearing your thoughts on wine that had sat for a few days… (being a newbie, maybe I’ll find that somewhere as I sift through all these episodes!!)

11. about 17 months ago

    ThomasS

    Yuw Gary. Don’t have to say I like this ep, do I? You know I’m berserk on German Rieslings. I think that the Von Hovel makes out a tremendous QPR. Even when he year is not that great he manages to make decent wines. But, I have a question to you: did you ever try those other white varietals planted in Mosel-Saar-Ruwer, Pfalz or Rheingau? I’m not talking of Gewürz, but of grapes like Elbling, Schuerrebe, Ortega, Weissburgunder (Pinot Gris)? I have always the idea that they are used to make vinegar or bulk wines or something like that, and so, I never feel like trying them (even most producers I regularly visit don’t have them). But, is there maybe a producer over there that actually makes good wines of these?
    QOTD: Best: in general: Steven Tanzer (Rhone-varietal wines), Decanter reviewers, Luciano Pignataro (South-Italian), Veronelli guide (Italy in General). Oh yes, and Hugh Johnson, I have lots of respect for what this man did and still does.
    Belgian reviewers: Herwig Vanhove, you know the man has a tendency for right bank Bordeaux style for his reds and Montrachet style for his whites, but he doesn’t hide that and he can write interesting and profound articles on wine, winemaking, varietals, … . Dirk Rodriguez: always careful in his judgement, without pretending and does not talk about things he does not know.
    Worst: I’m sorry, I know it’s a cliché: RP. Why? I have been disappointed several times (i.e. a 94+ wine that turns out to be complete crap, even different bottles and different shops) I don’t like his style (not the wines, the man himself and his writing) and I certainly don’t like his idea of ‘democratizing the wine world’, because he just did not (it’s a superfluous and ridiculous idea anyway).
    A whole bunch of Belgian wine critics. Let’s name the worst two: Alain Bloeykens and Frank Vander Auwera. I don’t know what those guys think of themselves and what they are doing: they clearly pretend to be great wine journalists, yet, everytime I read something they wrote it’s like: ok, that’s wrong, this is superfluous, this is a cliché, … etc. Not that I know everything about wine, I certainly do NOT, but when you read just a little bit and keep your eyes open and your palate unpredjudiced (which is almost impossible), then it is so clear that they just write away like that. And hen I’m not only speaking about their reviews (I certainly recognize the fact that they can discern a good from a bad wine, that’s not my point - yet FVdA sometimes really goes off the track for me: recommended wines of make a good impression at the start, but have a hollow mid palate and a mute aftertaste), but just imagine this: when they write something about a certain wine region, a new phenomenon in the wine business or a cultivar in a two page article they do not manage to say as much as you do in a 10 min. ep! See, … ? And what worse: they are so terribly predjudiced on the inside, while they act as if they are the new wave journalists. Grrrr, … hate that, I tell you smth: I have learnt to read between the lines and I do it for my job, so … give it a rest. All that crap: they pretend to be critical on the NW-wine mindless fruitbomb style and what did they chose as their best wines of a tasting on a fair a few months ago (I was also pt that jury): flabby, fruit forward, structureless and subdued sugary wines like the Penfolds Bin 2 Shiraz-Mourvèdre or the La Mogarba Priorat (that did not even taste like a Priorat).
    And yes, you are also somewhere out there, not only because you’re unny, but because I like some anarchism and debunking. Keep up the good work!

12. about 19 months ago

    Dan

    A good refresher for our German Riesling dinner next week…. Thanks for sharing.

13. about 20 months ago

    mr skin

    I am a big Damon fan. I loved the Bourne movies and I just heard that there will be a third and finally movie. Anybody know when that will come out?

14. about 22 months ago

    P. Hig.

    Meadows for Burg
    Tanzer for rhone and bordeaux are faves though their palates stray from mine and interesting moments so I trust myself more than anyone in the final analysis.
    Least fave: Parker who should stick to rum (that way every vintage can be the vintage of the century) and anything from Speculator because I think they smoke before they taste. By the way, anyone read the parker bio? Very good (and ballanced in its presentation).

15. about 22 months ago

    BEN

    Jancis Robinson.

16. about 22 months ago

    Christopher

    Hi asr2021

    You asked: Does “must weight” necessarily refer to the risidual sugar left in the finished wine or only to that in the fruit?

    For a wine to qualify for a certain Q.m.P classification, the grapes have to be picked at a certain time and have a “must weight” within a certain range. The time of picking and “must weights” vary from region to region.

17. about 22 months ago

    SeanM

    This is actually from my comment yesterday, seems more appropriate today:

    I just got back from OR and WA where I got to taste a bunch of 300 case production pinot’s as well as some great reislings, zins, and syrahs. I had a great time. My friend was laughing at me in the tasting rooms, I was lining up glasses of wine infront of me and going back to them in order to see how air was affecting them. He thought I should be ‘drinking’ faster. I pointed out that if his glass was empty he couldn’t be enjoying the wine as much as I was.

    Am I off base, was I tricking myself into thinking I was getting anything new from the wines?

    What kind of glass are you using most of the time for tasting on the show?

18. about 22 months ago

    Jim Vandegriff

    Hey Gary,
    I appreciated this episode on German rieslings. I’m a wine collector, and about 70% of my cellar stores German (mostly middle Mosel) wines. I thought you did a very good job with the categories of wine. You could have used a bit more descriptor language on the wines to give people a better idea of the typical flavors found in these wines. My favorite reviewers include Jancis Robinson, Michael Broadbent, Clive Coates, and a number of German experts who post on the erobertparker.com wine bulletin boards.
    You are doing a great job with winelibrary tv, and I thought the earlier episode on “wines that had been open a few days” was hilarious. Keep having fun, and informative. All the best, Jim

19. about 22 months ago

    Lawrence Leichtman

    Another great episode. I took the last one as a joke so don’t worry about the negative comments. As to who is my favorite: Stephen Tanzer though you are coming up rapidly in my opinion. My least favorite is Robert Parker. His palate and mine rarely agree.

20. about 22 months ago

    Rob B

    Gary,
    First time…long time…
    you have got to be kidding….your episode 69 was hilarious! People have to lighten up…Please don’t go serious (because some critic or uptight suit can’t take a joke)
    I have been buying wine at your store over the past 2 years and have become a huge fan of your WL TV. I am in Global Marketing and your company is as good as it gets when it comes to selling value! I love the fact that you are passionate about what you do!!!! Keep up the TRUE blog and please do not lower yourself to the boring suits, critics or people without a sense of humor. Keep it real and fresh…you have truly opened a door that the old farts did not want to be opened.

21. about 22 months ago

    karl satirev

    Liked your slightly subdued demeanor in this episode. You came across as more professional and knowledgeable. I liked that a lot.

    Best reviewer - Tanzer
    Most inconsistent reviewer - Parker

22. about 22 months ago

    TimF

    Americans talk dry but drink sweet. White Zin alone makes up 10% of US wine case sales and 6% of US wine dollar sales…

    Personally, I love sweet wines if they are made correctly. Port, eiswein, noble rot wines are some of (if not the) best wines on the entire planet. I’m the type of guy who won’t let sweetener touch my coffee or iced tea, but if a sweet wine is well made I’m in heaven. Heaven! Still waiting on that port episode…

23. about 22 months ago

    ronguy

    Re: vblog #39 from Scott. Check wltv #13 for review of two Pierano estate wines.

24. about 22 months ago

    asr2021

    Hi All,
    I don’t get it. What’s wrong if the wines are a little on the sweet side. Does that imply lesser quality? To my understanding it is somewhat intentional; it balances the wines natural acidity. Some vintners even add unfermented grape juice to the wine, resulting in a sweeter, more balanced wine.

    Also, Auslese, BA, Eiswein, and TBA are all made, either in part or as a whole, with botrytised fruit, hence their sweetness.

    Q: Does “must weight” necessarily refer to the risidual sugar left in the finished wine or only to that in the fruit? Does one necessarily follow the other?

25. about 22 months ago

    bob pederson

    favorite wine writer / reviewers who aren’t Gary Vaynerchuk

    Dorothy Gaiter and John Brecher @ Wall Street Journal - same kind of all around view / look at wine and seem to understand more than almost anyone I’ve read that wine is about how it fits into your life as opposed to fitting your life around wines and wine scores.

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