German wines and the Rieslings that make them. – Episode #70

August 14, 2006

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2004 Von Hovel Qba Riesling

2004 Willi Haag Brauneberger Juffer Riesling Kabinett

2003 Johann Haart Piesporter Goldtropfchen Riesling Spatlese

2004 St.urbans Hof Ockfener Bockstein Auslese Riesling

Today Gary talks about the QMP,QBA and many other things that have to do with German wines. Watch as Gary goes through the wines and gives you his thoughts.

86 Responses

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  1. August 15, 2006

    asr2021

    Hi All,
    I don’t get it. What’s wrong if the wines are a little on the sweet side. Does that imply lesser quality? To my understanding it is somewhat intentional; it balances the wines natural acidity. Some vintners even add unfermented grape juice to the wine, resulting in a sweeter, more balanced wine.

    Also, Auslese, BA, Eiswein, and TBA are all made, either in part or as a whole, with botrytised fruit, hence their sweetness.

    Q: Does “must weight” necessarily refer to the risidual sugar left in the finished wine or only to that in the fruit? Does one necessarily follow the other?

  2. August 15, 2006

    bob pederson

    favorite wine writer / reviewers who aren’t Gary Vaynerchuk

    Dorothy Gaiter and John Brecher @ Wall Street Journal – same kind of all around view / look at wine and seem to understand more than almost anyone I’ve read that wine is about how it fits into your life as opposed to fitting your life around wines and wine scores.

  3. August 15, 2006

    cgf

    thanks paul!

  4. August 15, 2006

    Christopher

    Hi, Thank you for the German Wine.

    To make the pronunciation easier, there are new classifications that aim to make it easier for consumers to orientate themself with German wine:

    Old = Spätlese / New = Classic
    (Late Harvest)

    Old = Auslese / New = Selected
    (Selected Harvest, usually hand picked).

    In the Q.m.P classification, (Quality wine with Distinction) the 6 subcategories reflect the time of picking and also the “must weight” (German = Öchsle, France = Brix, USA = specific gravity) both of which are strictly regulated.

    Cheers
    Christopher

  5. August 15, 2006

    Paul

    Good intro to German wines. There is much left to be said, particularly with regard to the differences in areas within the country and, even more importantly, character of vineyard and the VINTAGE. After all, most of these vineyards are pretty far north and small changes in weather can have profound effects on ripening. But that’s another episode.

    Which brings me to the question posed by cgf in Reply 33: the classifications within QmP are based on must weight, i.e., sugar content in the juice. It usually translates into the amount of residual sugar in the finished wine, but that is not always the case, particularly at the Kabinett on Spatlese levels. By the time one gets to BA or TBA, the sugar content is very high in the finished wine. Additionally, in the not-too-distant past, the German quality review board that evaluates wine and determines whether a given wine is appropriately representative, expected wines to have some residual sugar. Not long ago, two classifications were added to finished wines – halb-trocken and trocken (half-dry and dry) because the German people wanted dry wine to go with food. You will occasionally see that on the bottle in a place separate from all the other info on the bottle. A trocken wine (not to be confused with Trockenbeerenauslese) is simply one that has been fermented to driness, usually with a higher alcohol content than traditional German wines, which are around 8-11%.

  6. August 15, 2006

    joe

    Nick: Yes! Right on. Gary, keep it you – keep it fun – Most of us in the Blog family Love a little joke and smile.

  7. August 15, 2006

    Nick

    Gary

    I, and I’m betting many others, enjoy WLTV because YOU enjoy WLTV. Don’t let a bunch of spoilsports (viewers, vintners, or distributors) change what you want to do, and how you want to do it.

    To those killjoys who were so incensed with Friday’s episode, perhaps you can go produce your own wine video blogs and let WLTV stay fun?

    Nick

  8. August 15, 2006

    BigBob

    I want the old Gary back…. to hell with the distributors and wineries…

    I want my WLTV!

  9. August 15, 2006

    Ed R

    Question about ratings, it seems to me that WA and WS scoring systems are not exactly the same. So I was wondering when you say 87 do you mean very good WS or barely drinkable WA ?
    Thanks,
    ED

  10. August 15, 2006

    Bill

    Good show Gary. I like your reviews and am suspicious of Parker in particular. He really loves Grenache lately, and some of the cheap Spanish wines that have gotten 90+ from him are pretty ordinary really. Similarly with Aussie wines. He is almost single-handedly responsible for the demise of the long-term cellaring red in Australia!
    Just one note on today’s show: you really maybe should have a 10 minute session with a German speaker to get those terms a bit better!! No big deal, but it does make one squirm a little – especially the final ‘e’ on words like ‘Auslese”, which is actually pronounced!
    As for complaints about WLTV. Jesus Christ people, it is not as if you are paying for this service! If you don’t like it don’t watch!! I have enjoyed every episode – to varying extents sure – but every one! Keep it up.
    Now, two quick questions, especially after todays email note on Chianti: will you ever stock the Pacina Colli senese again (from maybe 5 years back): the best chianti I have ever had; and will you do a wltv on Heathcote shiraz (you have a few wines from Carlei) – this stuff is the real deal and not Parkerised!

  11. August 15, 2006

    SeanM

    Great episode(s) Gary, ignore the negative crap, blast the wineries and distributors, if they want to complain tell them to make better wine.

    I just got back from OR and WA where I got to taste a bunch of 300 case production pinot’s as well as some great reislings, zins, and syrahs. I had a great time. My friend was laughing at me in the tasting rooms, I was lining up glasses of wine infront of me and going back to them in order to see how air was affecting them. He thought I should be ‘drinking’ faster. I pointed out that if his glass was empty he couldn’t be enjoying the wine as much as I was.

    Am I off base, was I tricking myself into thinking I was getting anything new from the wines?

    What kind of glass are you using most of the time for tasting on the show?

    If I ever get the chance to drive up to the store from MD I’ll be the big guy wandering through the store with a RedSox cap on. ;-)

  12. August 15, 2006

    stewart l.

    I don’t have a favorite reviewer. I have noticed that some wines that you think are ok, you will give a high 80 rating which is supposed to be for “very good” wines, instead of what sounds like a 80 rating. As evidenced by Parker, everyones taste is different,so the true rating is your own palate. Ratings can provide some guidance.

  13. August 15, 2006

    Bill Ipp

    GARY – don’t apoligize … it’s YOUR show

    FAVORITE – Parker … I tend to like the same style of cabs that he does

    LEAST FAVORITE – Laube … at times, he is all over the place

  14. August 15, 2006

    Craig K

    Gary,
    Great episode – informative and interesting. It reminded me in a positive way of the reason I watch in the first place. It is apparent you took some hits over the weekend, and I suspect the content was worse in the emails than in the blog. Hang in there. When you can, I look forward to the return of the Gary who deftly mixes lightheartedness and irreverence with wines that may or may not be serious. Most trusted reviewer is Parker, mostly because of his descriptions (not ratings) for wines from Rhone. I agree with other comments here that his reviews of the Aussie wines are overblown and he has taken much heat (pun intended) because of it. Having followed his predictions for twenty years, he tends to overestimate the longevity of some wines as well, especially CA Cabs. Least trusted is Laube because more often than not I just don’t agree. Gary you rank way up there, and gain trust with the more wines you review and dare to tell the truth about. Hats off to you, CK

  15. August 15, 2006

    MaryS

    Hi Gary,
    Thanks for the Riesling lesson. I’m going to start sampling some different ones. BUT, I will still keep drinking the Beringer white zin. I like it and the price is right. Do you like any of the other white zin’s? I don’t care for Sutter Home but I haven’t tried many others. Also, will you ever have the free shipping within NJ offer again? That’s when I usually buy multiple cases. I’m only about 25 minutes away but driving routes 78 and 24 are a hassle. Thanks for any info!

  16. August 15, 2006

    thep

    Glad you had a great time at the wedding. I thought infamous episode 69 was what it was: a chuckle. I’m surprised that the merchants and makers (OF WINE) don’t recognize a little fun. Too bad.

    Your German pronunciation sucks. GV is my favorite wine reviewer because he’s the only one I read/see. WLTF is convenient, entertaining, and fun. Keep telling me what you taste and I’ll be happy to agree or disagree as my pallae dictates. De gustibus non disputandem est.

  17. August 15, 2006

    Baja

    I don’t know that I have an absolute favorite reviewer. The two that I seem to go to the most are WS and Parker. I do find you the most entertaining. However to be honest and fair, I have not tried many of your recommendation. Italian wine are a favorite of mine and I think that James Suckling at WS covers them best (even though his attitude is as pompous as it get’s). A previous poster mentioned how it is dangerous to get caught up to much into the rating thing as it can alter your wine choice. I have to agree with this. To often I have found myself chasing ratings. This past weekend I went to a very large Pinot tasting where there were close to 100 wines. The choices I made fell mostly into the 86-90 range according to WS and Parker. However these were the wines my wife and I liked the best. We tasted many higher rated wines but they just did not do it for us. I found this a valuable lesson. Gary, I asked a question on shipping in heat last week, would love your answer….thanks!

  18. August 15, 2006

    davidb

    Thanks for turning a light on Germany. Serious, but a little too simplistic, as it will probably not convert those who still think all German wines are sweet and fruity. I look forward to more exploration of Germany, Austria, Alsace, and Loire.

    Favorite reviewers: Peter Liem (W&S), Antonio Galloni (Piedmont Report). and Robin Garr (wineloverspage.com)

    Least favorite: Parker, the whole WS team (except for Matt Kramer).

  19. August 15, 2006

    Roofie

    Well, I would have to say that you Gary, and the two “boring” English guys (according to Tony ;) ) are both my favourite wine reviewers, and my least favourite are all those boring “serious experts” that canned your Episode 69.

    Great approach to have a bit of fun with wine Gary (although you might need a better scriptwriter on your jokes).

    German Wines – an interesting topic – the best review I ever saw was at http://www.virtualwine.co.uk/virtualwineblog/?p=137

  20. August 15, 2006

    asr2021

    O, i didn’t notice Bill et al. had said it, but great episode anyways. :)

  21. August 15, 2006

    asr2021

    Hi Gary et al.,
    Yeah, I gotta admit I was disappointed w/ #69. The whole time I was hoping that you’d get to at least one wine; I literally said “Oh Man!”, but I knew it was a joke. It just left me wanting more. I couldn’t wait for #70. Please, STAY FREE with regard to style and WLTV. :)

    Hey Steve,
    Gary addressed Mary’s issues big time. Along with mine.

    Let me be the first to say: (ahem)

    “GREAT EPISODE GARY!”

    I don’t yet have a favorite reviewer. I am skeptical of the points system at times. I really value tasting notes; that’s all I really look for. I am trying to develop my palate and haven’t really found whose matches mine. I absolutely hate when salespeople simply say, “yeah, its a good wine; it got 91 pts.” It takes away from the experiential heart of wine; you can’t judge it without having tried it. Keep doing what you’re doing Gary; myself and others need it.

  22. August 14, 2006

    GeneV

    The Haart was mildly corked. Your cardboard description is nothing like the ones I have had, some of which I bought from WL, and everything like cork. If you didn’t get orange from an ‘03 Haart Piesporter, something was wrong.

    My favorite reviewer is me. However, if I can’t find a review of my own, Joe’s ranking is pretty close.

    Parker for Bordeaux or Rhone
    Meadows for Burgs
    Sanderson for German Riesling
    Vaynerchuk for new world merlot and chard
    Miles Raymond on central coast pinot
    Tanzer for most everything else

    To avoid:
    Parker on cheap Spanish wine
    Laube on Calif wine south of Napa
    Parker on Aussie Shiraz (94 point cough syrup)

  23. August 14, 2006

    Scott Stutz

    Gary, Don’t take the #69 reviews to heart. You are blazing new trails here. Go with your instinct. We are all learning much from you. The average wine guy like me can get behind your approach. Let’s have fun and learn. You are my favorite wine reviewer. Your taste are right on for me. Ok, How about reviewing Pierano Estates. This little winery is excellent. How about the 04 Cab and the “Other White”. Both serious value to price.

  24. August 14, 2006

    garyv

    Autograph was VERYYYYYYY Legit and the answer to if he is done is….YES :(

  25. August 14, 2006

    Russ J

    Put me in the GV bandwagon. Your comments have been insightful enough that I think I have been able to discern the wines that I would and would not like from WLTV. Some of the ones you have raved about I have passed on because you made it very clear what it was you liked and it was not something I have enjoyed in the past. The ones I bought (and drank) have worked out quite well. I also find James Suckling from WS pretty good and I saw him interviewed on TV (I think on the Today show during the winter olympics) and he seemed like a cool guy. I also love my “Oz Clarke’s Pocket Wine Guide”. He is definitely “old school” but has not led me wrong yet. The only reviewer who I remember being burned by was Parker with some of his cheapo Spanish picks. I recall other viewers with similar comments from an episode a few months ago.

    I’m glad you did Episode 69 like that. It weeded out some of the crybabies in the crowd. Now you have to do an episode on aging and answer all of my previous questions or….WAAH, WAAH, WAAH! (Please?)

    Two more: Was that autograph legit? Is Curtis Martin finished?

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