Monday Wine Tasting With Gary Vaynerchuk – Episode #139

December 4, 2006

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Wines tasted in this episode:

A big Monday episode of WLTV! Today Gary tastes and reviews four wines because that’s what he likes to do! Tune and see how these four stack up and see if they get the Vaynernod of Vanyerclank!

  • John J.
    I just picked up the 06 of that same Trapiche on a recommendation, I hope its better than the 04 you tasted.
    Gary, how about doing a nice laid back easy charbono episode? Few wineries make it I've had a few of them, not just the robert foley and the summer's, the 2 best known I think. They can make pretty good wines and it would be fun to see your take on something most people haven't had. Speaking of rare wines, a vin jaune episode would really blow my hair back.
  • No shortcuts for my chili. I made some for New Year's Eve and it rocked 22 guests.
    You wouldn't cut corners on wine, so don't cut them on chili.

    First high-fuss standard: use chunks of meat, never ground.
    Second high-fuss standard: grind your own spices.

    You want slivers of meat approximately one-quarter inch thick with the width and length of about half a square US postage stamp. Your butcher, if you have one, will be perplexed at this request. Best strategy, buy stew meat, then cut the chunks down much smaller. A sharp knife facilitates this (a dull knife is actually more dangerous than a sharp one, since it can slip).

    The meat (about three pounds) should not be too lean. I usually try to make at least a pound pork, with my ideal trio a pound each of pork (for the fat), beef (for the center) and buffalo (for the flavor). If pork is not on your allowed meats list make sure you're putting in some fat from the other meats.

    To grind my dried chilies and spices, I use a coffee grinder I keep just for this purpose. I use a disposible face mask and disposible sanitary gloves, because I'm talking serious chilies that will give you nose bleeds.

    Amounts are approximate, as tastes differ, but a good mix would be:
    --one tablespoon cumin seeds - more to taste
    --one tablespoon black peppercorns
    --half teaspoon dried juniper berries
    --one dried hababero pepper
    --three dried ancho chilies
    --further dried red chilies, mild or hot, to taste

    Grind together thoroughly. Store carefully. Don't breathe in dust.
    New Mexico dried chilies are absolutely the best; available at Whole Foods and specialty stores. A few packages of dried chilies last years. One tip: avoid chipotles, since their smoked flavor can overpower. A nice variety of chilies will add complex fruit as well as heat.

    If in doubt about heat, use a light hand with the chilies, but don't be stingy with the cumin, the real taste of chili. Never add hot sauce to chili.

    Once these exacting standards for the meat and chilies have been met, the rest of the process leaves a great number of options. I use a large heavy-bottom pot, in my case a cast iron Le Creuset (since I believe everyone needs a $300 pot). I dice two large onions, and sweat them in oil at moderate heat. I throw in a conservative dose of garlic a few minutes later (for me, two cloves max; garlic too early risks burning and turning bitter). I may put in diced green bell pepper, but not much, since I avoid anything that can be too watery. I will add little dollops of chicken broth as I sweat the aromatics until I get a nice caramelization: at least ten minutes. I then add enough chicken broth to wet the mixture again, carefully mix in the ground spices and chilies, salt by feel, then add the meat slivers. I mix it all up thoroughly, then LEAVE IT ALONE for several hours to simmer on low heat, adding chicken broth if it seems to risk dryness, but not with a heavy hand. Adjust salt to taste, but be careful not to over-salt as mixture concentrates. I use the not-too-salty natural broth so as not to inadvertently over-salt.

    Now some chili purists may say NO BEANS and NO TOMATOES. I myself will never add these. I think, however, that if you want to add them, just do it, but use quality ingredients. I also like the chili on its own, but if you want to serve it over rice or sprinkle with cheddar, that's OK.

    As to the best wine with chili, I believe it is Negra Modelo. That is, of course, a dark Mexican beer, and not a wimp beer at that. A spicy, in-your-face Shiraz may also suit, but then you wouldn't get to drink the Negra Modelo.

    The goal of my recipe for chili is that it should put hair on your chest, but only if you are male. The result is opposite with females: it burns hair OFF the chest, which I believe is still a desirable result.

    The chili stores well, freezes well, and improves with age.
  • phig
    Parker gave the shiraz a 92 because HE CAN'T TASTE ANYMORE! As for Chili. No breakfast sausage, no secret ingredients. Some simple rules. DO NOT USE GROUND BEEF. Use cubed chuck (and not a better cut--uyou want a cut with some fat and some tendon in it otherwise it will be dry and uninteresting). The more different kinds of pepper you use, the better. Make sure chipotle is one of them. poblano is also good. If you are going to put beans in it (lots of debates on that) cook them from scratch. If you are thinking about using canned beans, STOP. Don't use any beans at all. Other than that, cumin (ground), black pepper, lots of chopped onions, tomato sauce, and before serving ad some chopped cylantro. If you can use beef stock instead of water, do so. You can use beer as well or both. It should cook for about two hours and then sit at least overnight before being reheated and served.
  • John
    Buttery Chardonnay = Diacytil
    I'm not a fan of it. To me it comes across as a slickness on the tongue.
    The yeast and fermentation temps. cause this.
  • GOL
    Can't agree with Brandon M on this ep... I love when GV has an o-fer... kinda like the jets did vs. BEARS:-) Seriously though, it is just so genuine, and that's why we all watch

    For my part, i'm o-fer in the chili dept.
  • Bill Ross
    Looks like some great recipes here, if you have time to read 'em all. I like to cook, and some of my dishes involve fairly elaborate preparation. But sometimes its nice to cut corners and save time.
    I feel bad saying this, but you can whip up some pretty decent Chili using a packaged mix, Wick Fowler's Two Alarm Chili, widely available down here in Texas (don't know about nation-wide). Just modify by using 50% lean ground meat and 50% diced lean meat (round steak, chuck roast,..whatever). For my taste, shoot the first person who suggests adding beans!
  • Matthew L
    Oh...thanks for the shout out about the lowly Lions. I thought we were going to pull it out against those damned Pats.

    Congrats on the Jets win. Even all the ESPN guys are now saying "Watch out for the Jets." Thanks for humiliating the Packers. I consider it payback for them beating the Lions at home. We see them again in two weeks, and, hopefully the Lions will open a fresh, new, air-sealed can of whoop azz on the Cheese Heads.
  • Matthew L
    Great show Gary. This may sound odd, but I actually appreciate when you pan wines just as much as I enjoy when you like them. It lets me know I'm not alone. Sometimes I taste wines that other people rave about, or received a high rating, and I just don't like it. Kudos.

    QOTD: I think I told you my wife is a chef, she is supposed to e-mail me a recipe that she uses. I've made it, but can't remember all the ingredients. I will follow up about that one. Here's a chicken chili recipe that I really enjoy. It goes great with a full-bodied red.

    ingredients

    * 2 tablespoons cooking oil
    * 1 onion, chopped
    * 2 cloves garlic, minced
    * 1 pound skinless chicken thighs (about 4), cut into thin strips (leftover turkey or chicken can be substituted for the chicken thighs)
    * 4 teaspoons chili powder
    * 1 tablespoon ground cumin
    * 2 teaspoons dried oregano
    * 1 teaspoon salt
    * 2 jalapeño peppers, seeds and ribs removed, chopped
    * 1 1/2 cups canned crushed tomatoes with their juice
    * 2 1/2 cups canned low-sodium chicken broth or homemade stock
    * 1 2/3 cups drained and rinsed pinto beans (from one 15-ounce can)
    * 1 2/3 cups drained and rinsed black beans (from one 15-ounce can)
    * 1/2 teaspoon fresh-ground black pepper
    * 1/3 cup chopped cilantro (optional)


    directions

    1. In a large saucepan, heat the oil over moderately low heat. Add the onion and garlic; cook until they start to soften, about 3 minutes.

    2. Increase the heat to moderate and stir in the chicken strips. Cook until they are no longer pink, about 2 minutes. Stir in the chili powder, cumin, oregano, and salt. Add the jalapeños, the tomatoes with their juice, and the broth. Bring to a boil, reduce the heat, cover, and simmer for 15 minutes.

    3. Uncover the saucepan and stir in the beans and black pepper. Simmer until the chili is thickened, about 15 minutes longer. Serve topped with the cilantro.
  • Bill T.
    Gary, I love the cheese hat!


    CHRIS FROM NY, buy a case of San Felipe Cabernet Sauvignon. A lot of value for 7 bones a bottle!
  • Rick "The Model
    Playoff's my hole.
  • Rick "The Model
    Playoff's my ass.
  • jason carey
    Gary, have you ever had a day where everything just tastes weird? I read a little
    article by James Suckling once about how even different weather can affect the way
    wine tastes, and that some wines that usually taste great can taste "off". I have had those days (for instance some days wines seem more astringent tasting than others, even the same bottle.), and wondered if as an experiment you could taste the same 4 wines on WLTV a week apart from each other and compare your impressions of the difference. You could combine them into the same episode by waiting to air the first set of wines until a week later. Of course by opening new bottles and letting them get air for the same amount of time. Maybe one on a dry day and one where its going to rain or snow.. I know it sounds bizarre.. but hey, Its WLTV and that is all about trying out different things.
    Jason C
    Brooklyn
  • Rebecca
    Gary,

    QOD: I make my chili with Brisket, which I slow-braise separately in Beer and a bunch of other yummy things. The meat falls apart. I've braised short-ribs, pork butts, lamb confit and even duck confit for chili few times as well, for the fun of changing things up. But if you want to stick to beef chili, the brisket works out great. If you enjoy cooking and LOVE the aromas that your home fills with while your cooking, I'll be happy to share the recipe. While everything is braising you definately have time sit down and watch a football game and drink some wine.

    I was pumped about the color (the way it came across when you poured it into your JETS bucket) on the Trapiche Malbec and then dissapointed that it didn't measure up.

    Whatever recipe you decide, give it a lot-a-love. Trust me, you'll taste/see the differnce a little love adds to the pot.
  • Julius
    What's with the guys who set up the Wine Library TV page, specifically the paragraph that's under the TV screen? I've copied the sentence I'm referring to and used upper case for the phrase in question.

    "Tune and see how these four stack up and see if they get the VANERNOD OF VANERCLANK!"

    What does it mean and where are the "Y's?"
  • Julius
    This chili recipe, from a friend of mine, won a chili competition held by Whole Foods. I have made it twice with very satisfying results.

    Ingredients

    4 oz. Bacon
    3-4 Tbl. Olive Oil
    2 Large Yellow Onions –Peeled and Coarsely Chopped
    8 Garlic Cloves – Chopped
    4 Lbs. Chuck Steak (or roast) – Cut into Cubes (~ ½ inch)
    2 Tbs. Cumin Seeds – Toasted and Ground
    ¼ Cup Ancho Chile Powder
    ¼ Tsp. Cayenne Pepper
    2 Tbs. Dried Mexican Oregano
    2 Chipotle Peppers – Chopped Fine
    2 Fresh Bay Leaves
    1 12oz. Bottle Amber Ale or Beer
    ½ Cup Tomato Sauce
    3 Cups Beef Broth
    Kosher Salt
    Black Pepper

    1. In a large, heavy pot or Dutch oven, cook bacon over medium heat until fat is well rendered. Remove bacon. Season beef with salt and pepper and add to bacon fat in batches until all beef is well browned on all sides and set aside.
    2. Meanwhile, heat olive oil in a large skillet over medium heat. Add onions and garlic, season with salt and pepper and cook, stirring occasionally, until very soft, about 15 minutes.
    3. Add the onions, cumin, chile powder, chipotles, cayenne, oregano and bay leaves to the pot. Stir until onions are well-coated and fragrant, about 30-60 seconds. Slowly add the beer to the pot. With a wooden spoon, scrape the bottom of the pot. Season with salt and pepper. Raise heat and cook, stirring occasionally, until liquid is reduced by half.
    4. Add the beef,beef broth and tomato sauce, lower heat to a simmer and allow to cook for two hours, uncovered.
    5. Taste chili and add salt and pepper as needed. If too thick, add water. Simmer another 30 minutes, or until reduced to the thickness that you prefer.

    Garnish with shredded cheddar or jack cheese, chopped red onion and sour cream.
  • Chris From NY
    I'm looking to buy a good case of wine for reasonable price for Christmas giveaways, any suggestions from you freaks?
  • rich loughrey
    Gary V.-- The Last Honest Man!
  • Big Billy from Big D
    QOTD: Chili Recipe
    Some good advice to make life easier - use the Wick Fowler kit along with some advice on the details (and some enhancements) that fills in some blanks on the package instructions.
    Wick Fowler kits are made to work with 2 lbs of meat. You figure how many people 2 lbs. feeds and get Wick Fowler kits accordingly. In Texas meat counters have a special coarse ground beef marked as “chili grind.” A substitute for you would be tenderized beef marked to make Swiss steak. You could cut it into 1 inch x 1.5 inch pieces to substitute for ground beef. Regular grind textures will end up looking like hot dog sauce. Chili con carne is really a beef braise/stew kind of dish, not a hamburger soup.

    Another meat variable would be to use cubed round steak or chuck. Just cut them into sizable cubes 1inch plus, salt and pepper, let sit, then fry (just to a gray color is fine). An enhancement would be to sprinkle a little chili powder along with salt and pepper and let sit an hour (or overnight) before frying ( you are adding chili flavor here).

    DO NOT USE Chocolate. Chocolate is a viable Mexican ingredient in Moles (Sauces) made with chiles and ground nuts. Save it for different recipes.
    DO NOT COOK WITH BEANS. Beans are side dish, a good side dish, but a side dish for certain. This is a commandment not to be questioned. And for God’s sake NOT CANNED BEANS.

    Cumin is an ingredient that is as key as chiles in making chili. The very best manner is to use cumin twice in the prep. First in the early spicing to let it steep in along the sauce of the chiles, then shortly before serving to bring the dish up aromatically.

    It is best to grind whole cumin seed in a spice grinder after a quick roast. Roasting is simple just bring a small fry pan or sauté pan up to a medium heat, place the cumin in the pan and gently and steadily shake to keep them moving, they will start to pop and give off their fragrance, then load them into a coffee grinder for a quick grind and then add to the pot. You will be amazed at how much more complex and aromatic freshly roasted cumin is than ground cumin from a jar.

    The Wick Fowler kits can make a plenty spicy chili, but if you want your guests to have the option of more heat offer ground cayenne on the side.

    SIDES
    Saltine crackers are terrific. In fact, the Chili Society Poobahs stat their meeting with a ceremonial crumbling of the crackers signified by rubbing their hands together. saltines crumbled into the finished chile will thicken it big time and keep it from dribbling off your spoon, and it tastes good. LBJ was one in the legions that practiced chili consumption in this manner.

    Beverages
    Low hopped beers, Margaritas, iced tea, Dr Pepper, and Coca Cola. Wines are simply overwhelmed. Although there is a nice white Sangria that could be made with Riesling or Gervurtz, sliced fruits, and then augmented with Grand Marnier, or Cointreau that would be tolerable.

    Happy cooking.
  • Joyce
    I got today's episode at 10:30am, and I watch it right away. Why are there already so many postings commenting on today's video? Are some of the episodes emailed out earlier than others? Just wondering how people comment so quickly.

    Thanks again for a great video, Gary...you're obviously pumped up about your Jets.

    Joyce
  • Louisiana George
    You encourage us to drink a new wine every day, so try a new chili

    The best chili i have ever had was Moose chili - a friend has a business location in northeastern canada, where they eat moose meat in place of beef. take your favorite beef chili recipe and replace the ground beef with ground moose meat. great taste and healthier because it is leaner.

    ps - ordered some of wine #2 of the year and got nicked for $30 shipping on a case of half bottles - can we get some relief on the shipping when it is half bottles involved (should be cheaper as they are smaller and don't weigh as much?

    Louisiana George
  • Dan C.
    Gary- I agree with a lot of the comments that it is very useful to know what not to buy. Also, like Tanzer, you score more conservatively than RP and others, but it is your notes, or descriptions, which are the most valuable. While we get to know our own palates, we also learn about yours. Keep up the good work.

    My friend Bill is a huge Packer fan (there is no other kind) and he said the Packers re-defined "awful" on Sunday. Congrats to the Jets and thanks again for the free shipping! I got my delivery one day before the arctic air came to Chicago.

    Dan C.
  • I'll tell you why the wines you tasted sucked. Vaynerchuck, your mouth just got you into trouble. That's what happens when you talk trash about the Giants. Don't forget who's stadium you RENT out everytime you play at 'home.' Just because you are jealous of big blue's fly colors and are stuck w/ the puke-green jerseys doesn't give you the right to slam my boys when they are down.
    When you bite the hand that feeds you, bad things happen. The green gumby's are going down, in ugly fashion...all the wine you taste will suck, until you take back what you said about big blue that is ;)
  • Shotgun
    Gary, I've got to disagree with you on the Ravenswood Teldeschi. It is obnoxiously good. I had a bottle last weekend with -- CHILI, of course. There are lots of recipes posted above, but I have to agree with many the the Fowler "kits" are a convenient place to start. Cover 2 cups of well-rinsed dried pinto, red or kidney beans with water in a large pot and bring to boil, then reduce to simmer until tender (add water if needed, but not too much-- you want a nice bean liquor at the end to add in your other ingedients). In a skillet, heat 2 tblsp olive oil, put in 2 lbs well-trimmed and cubed round steak and brown lightly. Stir in TWO whole packs of chili powder from the Fowler kits (sorry, you have to use two of the kits... but this makes a lot of chili), 1/2 cup of Teldeschi or other 94 POINT red wine, one large can of crushed tomatoes, one small can of tomato paste, plus the packs of dried onion/garlic and oregano from the Fowler kits. Start with HALF of one pack of red pepper and pinch of salt. Let the meat concoction simmer for about 30 minutes stirring often. Add the meat to the beans and bring to near-boil, then reduce heat to low, cover and cook for at least two hours, better if 4-5 hours, stirring occasionally, and intermittently cutting off the heat altogether. Before serving, taste for need for salt, black pepper, and red pepper. I like my chili medium thick, very meaty, very dark brown and bursting rich with chili flavor, but not overly spicy hot. Just a little zest, but too much heat and the chili is no good with wine-- so what would be the point? Serve with cornbread (Jiffy mix is hard to beat) or some fresh lightly steamed soft tortillas if you can get them. Makes about 12 servings.
  • Michael P
    Awesome win yesterday. I'm stoked about the playoffs. I prefer to get in w/out the wild card though.The Jacksonville & Bears lost still hurts.

    ps The color wasn't as bright today as it was since you got the new cam. Did someone change something?
  • PLease don't misunderstand what I mean by "Sub-Par"
    I wasn't talking about the wine tastings, I was talking about the show in general. I'm not trying to get a 10 out of every show, but DAMN, Friday was unreal...probably a new top 5 for me. Then we go back to the old set up, wines distract Gary, plua nothing good to taste. I'm not saying it was a bad show, but I'm not rating it a 95 either....just sub-par. Like shooting 10 over par...you'll take it, but not what you had in mind.
  • thorazine
    Top 100? YES!

    Canadian Contingency taking over!

    Rough day today, but an enjoyable episode nonetheless. It's really easy to be all happy happy joy joy about wine all the time that's it's good to see criticism where criticism is due.

    It really makes me wonder about the 92 point RP score for the last wine. Maybe it's as you've said time and time again...there isn't good wine, just good bottles of wine.

    A wine I'd love for you to try (and so would canadian kid) is Matetic Pinot Noir San Antonio EQ. 90 pts from WS, but for us up here in Canada a VERY reasonably price pinot for what we both feel this package has to deliver.

    As per chilli...sorry big guy, all my stuff comes from a can that says "Campbell's" on it :)
  • Ken
    Gary,
    Brutal episode. Your honesty keeps me coming back. You've a fine palate. You seem to be ahead of the curve with respect to over-oaked, high alcohol wines. I like balance and finesse, dignified wines. I had a Jade Mountain 1998 Mourvedre the other night that was to die for. Decanted for two hours plus. Just a tad over 13%. Magnificent. Long live wine diversity. Long live the Wine Library. You do a great public service.
  • Denise
    Descending Number Significance Theory #3:

    Gary is counting backward from the assigned numbers of registered users on the WLTV Forum (starting from the date the descending number first appeared) and he's sending a "thanks for participating" email to said registered user on the day their corresponding number appears on the dry erase board.

    (I really don't think it's a baby...I just don't think he could possibly contain that news!)
  • SS Chris
    or perhaps VaynerANGST!!
  • SS Chris
    Gary, A few items:

    1. You said that "Tanzer was a little above Robert Parker." Did you mean that and is that true?

    2. I saw a small VaynerCLANK...it's been so long..THANKS..LOVE THOSE...kind of a quick MiniCLANK (only 2 CLANKS), but I'll take them anyway (for fellow VaynIACS, it was after the 2nd tasting of the Ravenswood Zin (2nd wine)...right after GV says, "I'm a little back and forth with this wine")

    3. You also provide us w/2 VaynerTAPS (pointed out by fellow SuperVaynIAC Paul from Mendham, NJ). One 4-TAP w/ the football & then a 2-TAP with the corkscrew. These were both done during Willows Barossa. I have a theory which I would like you to confirm or deny on the next episode. I believe that both taps eminated from the internal struggle that you mentioned...it's hard panning wines from nice people that served you a meal at there house. I would say that at the moment of your VaynerTAPS, you were going through a VaynerDILEMNA. Please confirm or deny!
  • Susan
    Kahuna,
    You are right, I see Chocolate in several of these recipes.
    A friend of mine from Cininnati told me a few years ago to put chocolate in the chili.
    I thought at the time, that she was crazy.
    Turns out it is VERY good that way.
    I have an award for a chili cookoff with this recipe.
    I might have to try your recipe soon. Looks very good.
    Great food AND
    Great wine!
    Great stuff!
    :):)
  • Bear Down
    Man I love it when the Packers lose at home! Thanks Jets! Of course it's easy for me to be nice to the Jets since the Bears beat them.

    Anyhoo, I've noticed lately that you have tasted some highly rated RP wines that have fallen quite short of his score. He does admit that he has a certain palate (punch in the mouth extracted fruit bombs, varietal charechter represented or not), but to score so many wines so high that just aren't well made (at least lately) is disconserting. I think he has had a very positive (somebody had to bring the Bordolais back to earth in the '70's) as well a negative effects on the wine world. Frankly it's not his fault. He doesn't go around asking winerys to manipulate their wines to his taste. The market does.....and Michel Rolland.

    Alos, You and I have the same wedding ring. I noticed it in the Pillar Box episode. Mine is Titanium. What is yours?

    Go Bears (wow Rex is looking shitty lately)
  • Sluke,

    The Faithful Hound is a really good South African wine. Here's my review:

    http://winecentric.blogspot.com/2006/08/mulderb...
  • Phil Ward
    Gary, Four wines, disappointment on all four, even though you were thrilled wiht the Jets win, could it have been one of those days when the stars, the moon and the wines just weren't hitting you and the palate just right? As we both know, as professional tasters, these days do happen?
    Otherwise, I appreciate your honesty.

    Phil
  • Sluke
    Hey Gary, nice ep-i-sode. Just started to get into wine recently and I have found your shop/show to be priceless despite the Jets homerism. :) Steeler fan here. How about that Playoff game a few years back?? TYVM Doug Brien. Think we can get a tasting on this?? http://winelibrary.com/reviewwine.asp?item=9172
  • Darlene O.
    Hey, Gary...don't sweat it. You can't help it if you don't like a wine. It is what it is. Great episode, nonetheless, and I appreciate your honesty. Congrats on your JETS!
  • Denise
    Gary...I have a recipe for chili for which I have been awarded HUGE sums of money (I know you will believe this to be true). It's YOURS, my friend, ALL YOURS when you tell me the significance of the daily descending number. NOTHING worth anything comes for free in this lifetime, Baby!! : )

    Great, honest, episode! Thank you. One favor, please. Pleease don't use the "GD" reference...you're shattering a Commandment every time you do.

    Concerned for your soul,
    Denise : )
  • Matthew W.
    Hi Gary,

    I started watching WLTV last week and am loving it, keep up the good work!

    Question/request for you: I noticed you playing with your "waiter's corkscrew" today on the show -- think you could give a how-to tutorial on using it in an upcoming episode? Nice slow step-by-step (how far to screw in, best grip/position to make it actually work, etc.) on how to make them actually work right.

    As for QOTD...sad, but true, the only chili I've ever made in my life comes out of a can and I just heat it up. Probably not what you're looking for!

    Thanks,
    Matthew
  • Tom T.
    Gary,

    Congrats on the NYJ victory. My NYG are sliding fast (though they did play well).
    Great episode. You were obviously pumped. Too bad the wines were not too good.
    This is why we all watch WLTV.
    Could you please taste the Ravenswood Icon on a future WLTV episode?
    http://winelibrary.com/reviewwine.asp?item=27892
    Thanks!
  • KAHUNA
    Susan,
    I see we have the same chocolate to our Chili- People never believe me when I tell them
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