Second Wines/Labels of Bordeaux and Other Wines.-Episode #140.

December 5, 2006

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Wines tasted in this episode:

This is a much anticipated episode where Gary Vaynerchuk tastes through the second labels of major wineries to see how their second wines stack up. Gary tastes through wines from California, Italy and of course Bordeaux where much is made of second label wines.

82 Responses

  1. December 5, 2006

    Sluke

    1st

  2. December 5, 2006

    Steve B

    2nd

  3. December 5, 2006

    Bill T.

    Wow 3rd!

  4. December 5, 2006

    hinrgman

    Gary

    Another great episode

    keep it up

  5. December 5, 2006

    eugene

    Top Ten!

  6. December 5, 2006

    johnm

    in

  7. December 5, 2006

    hinrgman

    Top 10

  8. December 5, 2006

    hinrgman

    Top 10!!

  9. December 5, 2006

    hinrgman

    Top 10!@!!!

  10. December 5, 2006

    Erich

    Top 10, 2 in a row.

  11. December 5, 2006

    JR Laz

    Ornellaia at mid-20’s Gary? Where do I sign up? The site lists it at $38. Not a bad value at that price, but mid-20’s would definitely be screaming QPR!!

  12. December 5, 2006

    hinrgman

    Top 10

    Top 10

  13. December 5, 2006

    hinrgman

    #11

    Whats the point???

  14. December 5, 2006

    Matthew L

    Great show Gary. I didn’t really even know about second wines. I appreciate the explanation. With that said, I have nothing to offer for today’s QOTD. I’m still just chasing after 1st wines. It probably wouldn’t be surprising if I’ve actually had 2nd wines, and just didn’t know it.

    Cheers!

  15. December 5, 2006

    Mets fan 13

    Thank you for doing an episode on 2nd wines, something I am very interested in (I own some Opus Overture, Napanook, Meyer, Caravan) – often very approachable from a price perspective. Was debating about whether to jump in on the Ornellaia when I noticed you got it in. Can’t wait to see the follow-up comparing the little brothers to the big ones.

  16. December 5, 2006

    Rick "The Model" M

    Very interesting episode. First time I have ever heard of second wines. Check out The Pearl Oyester Bar on Cornelia and Bleeker.

  17. December 5, 2006

    JR Laz

    Hingrman – do you ever spend time watching the episode, or do you just enjoy posting repeatedly for kicks? Maybe your server is having problems, I’ll be nice now.

    The POINT is GV clearly said the price was mid-20’s and rated it a 92 pt ROARING value….my point is that at $38, it’s a solid value, but not exactly enough to empty my cart full of Dead Arm and Magpie.

    QOTD – Best 2nd wine was Overture (Opus) from the 96/97 vintages. It rocked!

    Laz

  18. December 5, 2006

    Brandon M

    QOTD: Les Forts De Latour
    Seems to be made solid everytime…but not cheap either.
    Where’s the leather chair?
    That has got to come back some time!

  19. December 5, 2006

    Mark D

    Fav second wines:
    1) Knight’s Valley (select vintages great, some have been thin)
    2) La Mission Haut-Brion..yummy

  20. December 5, 2006

    Mark D

    Knight’s Valley = Peter Michael Les Pavot’s second wine

  21. December 5, 2006

    cgf

    Gary-
    Cool theme and great episode.

    QOTD: opus overture (i think 2002). had it with a bunch of friends on a road trip. drank it with grilled steaks in a buddy’s backyard after a long day of driving. Don’t remember the wine as much as the experience.

    I will see YOU next time.

  22. December 5, 2006

    JR Laz

    Brandon – did you see GV look around at his walls at one point like something was missing? I wonder if it was code. Great episode, but noticed the sterile walls when he did that. No comment on the pickles, who donated those?

    What is the “257?” countdown, has anyone figured that out? Probably obvious to the regulars, but I’m stumped.

  23. December 5, 2006

    TampaSteve

    Gary, glad you gave the Ornellaia Le Serre Nuove 2004 two thumbs up, I ordered this last night when I saw it come up on WL. I had even posted a “heads up” on the forum about it. I was turned onto this wine in Italy this summer by the sommelier at Locanda dell’Amorosa in Sinalunga. I thought it was fantastic. The wineries in Montalcino were telling me that 04’s might be the best Brunellos they have ever seen. We shall see. I also just read a article by James Suckling of WS how the 04 Barolos and Barbarescos are rocking. Look forward to more 04’s from Italy in the future.

  24. December 5, 2006

    jon777

    Hey Gary — Great episode! Very interesting… I learn something new in every ep of WLTV, but this one was particularly interesting. As someone who looks for QPR at every turn, 2nd labels hold a particular appeal. Look forward to the side by side testing — hopefully some time before the heat ep!

    So to continue the backup QB analogy: The Ornellaia Le Serre Nuove is Tony Romo — Unhearalded initially young, but based on the early reviews has huge potential

    The rest of the wines were Steve DeBerg wines. Veteran, solid, gets the job done — not spectacular, but solid.

    QOD: Honestly haven’t had any memorable 2nd labels to date. Look forward to trying the Ornellaia.

    QOTD2 (restaurant – hidden Gems): Cucharamama in Hoboken is OUTSTANDING south american cuisine. You should definitely check it out one night on your way back into the city. Great wine list as well… From Zagat: F25 S27 D22 $41
    “Maricel Presilla’s “amazing” Hoboken South American a block away from her sister restaurant, Zafra, “will delight your senses” with “powerful flavors” and an “ingenious use of ingredients” revealed in the “phenomenal” fare that’s backed by “sexy”, “swanky” sub-equatorial decor; “small” and sometimes “tough to get into”, those who don’t mind “waiting” are glad they did.”

  25. December 5, 2006

    KAHUNA

    SQTD-Peasant

  26. December 5, 2006

    Ken

    Gary,
    Good show.
    Is the Le Serra Nuove Ornellaia really at middle $20? You link has it at $37.99.

  27. December 5, 2006

    QueSeraSyrah

    I was wondering if someone was going to use Tony Romo as an analogy when you made that backup QB remark.

    Solid episode Gary. QOD- Carraudes de Lafite would have to be on the top of my list for secondary wines (it’s a short list though). One that I’ve had recently that I felt showed up it’s big brother was the 2003 Faust Cabernet Sauvignon. I’ve been unimpressed with Quintessa, but the Faust (I picked it up based on recommendation and didn’t even know it was related to Quintessa until much later) was a much better value and wine in my opinion.

  28. December 5, 2006

    Brad

    Pavillon rouge ‘03- numero uno 2nd wine.
    I heard that Eli Manning comment by the way…what did I tell you before about bashing the Giants? Actually, speaking of second wines, how about New York’s SECOND team- the Jetties? I guess Eli is no Ken O’Brien now is he? I’m tellin’ yah, if you keep talking Giants trash, the next thousand dollar bottle you buy will be corked!
    Check out the Metro Cafe & Wine Bar on 21st and park. http://www.metrocafenyc.com/

  29. December 5, 2006

    Mitch

    Gary;
    What’s with many of the major Bordeaux chateaux releasing multiple second wines with different names, different labels, and different release dates? I bought Sarget de Gruaud Larose on futures years ago! It was featured at the time as Gruaud’s second label. Now they have released Roseraie de Gruaud and they don’t blink an eyelash. It may be good for revenue, but in my opinion not very fair to the consumer who would like some clear idea of what they purchased.

    On another note, Darioush has to produce among the most oak-ridden wines on the planet. Wine educators should buy the stuff to use as a sample of oak-madness for the education of novices.

  30. December 5, 2006

    KAHUNA

    I will go cheap and I do not know if this is a second wine- probably not but Hawks Crest by Stags Leap year to year pretty darn good- Wouldnt know a 2nd Frenchy if it fell out of the rack and onto my toe-

    By the way Peyton had a wopping one more win through his first 36 games than Eli has- but of course you are a dopey Jets fan with a dopey fireman leading a dopey cheer-thank god Jets is easy to spell because with their boonesfarm drinking fan base they probably couldn’t spell anything else- A bald man in a firehat riding another man -looks a little Brokeback Mountain to me in that stadium.

  31. December 5, 2006

    Pete J.

    Yquem’s 2nd Y was a revelation. How about a vertical on Ch. Pontet Canet?

  32. December 5, 2006

    hugh

    Gary,

    I thought the Roseraie was Gruaud Larose’s 3rd wine, with Sarget de G L as the second.
    Can u check that for me!! The 1996 Sarget was a good value at about $20…

  33. December 5, 2006

    gabe

    BIRBA!

  34. December 5, 2006

    Tom T.

    Gary,

    Awesome episode. This is why WLTV is so good and that is to learn something about wines. I never knew about second wines until 5 minutes ago. I’ll be trying the Ornellaia real soon.

    Hey take it easy on Eli. He’s young and needs time to grow. Was Peyton any good in his second year?

  35. December 5, 2006

    ER

    Sarget is the second wine of Gruaud Larose – wonder if this is a new release of some sort. The Sarget is a one of my favorite second labels — always affordable. I’d like to see Gary taste a bottle of that.

  36. December 5, 2006

    joe

    Gary I have purchased Sargent de la Gruaurd Larose as its second wine. what happened to it?

    Really good idea for an episode. I too have been so dissapointed by second wines in the past – my favorite being Palmers Alter Ego 1995. Unless you consider the Penflods Bin 389 a seond of Bin 707 and Grange.

    I love Ornellaia. Great to see it’s ‘04 second doing so well. Can you imagine how Great the REAL 2004 Ornellaia is ?? I will have to get a case of that. I have had the ‘03 Ornellaia twice now – very very different than in years past – - a super extracted Black Fruit/Licorice bomb. Have you tasted it?

    Joe

  37. December 5, 2006

    garyv

    2000 Chat Roseraie De Gruaud Larose is the third wine the Sargent de la Gruaurd Larose is the 2nd,sorry for the mix up, just had my head in too many places

  38. December 5, 2006

    hugh

    THANKS, THOUGHT SO!!

  39. December 5, 2006

    Rick McQ

    Gary:

    Great show! I’ve had a few seconds but none worth remenbering.

  40. December 5, 2006

    chogan

    ‘05 Bordeaux 2nd label might be good to do considering the insane prices.

    Petit Cheval is one of particular interest to me.

  41. December 5, 2006

    Eyeguy

    Great episode! I’m sure I’ve had seconds and probably thirds, but not sophisticated enough to know for sure!

    Rich

  42. December 5, 2006

    Wine-o

    Top ten???? Maybe tomorrow…
    QOTD #1 English is Italian,Great Spot and very urbane.
    Da Silvano, best restaurant in NYC hands down…
    QOTD #2 Tin Pony anyone…

  43. December 5, 2006

    Wildebeest

    Dammit Gary,

    What’s the deal w/ August 19th, 2007? I assume that’s the date we’re headed towards. In 1692, five women were killed on that day in the as a result of the Salem Witch Trials, but I doubt that’s what you’re thinking of. Are you just trying to recruit help in the task of remembering your anniversary (wedding) or something? …By the way, how’d your chili turn out?

  44. December 5, 2006

    Paul

    I agree with BrandonM – Les Forts de Latour. It has been MANY years since I had it, though. Bought half a case of ‘66. It’s long gone.

  45. December 5, 2006

    Paul

    Thinking further, I do have a bait of Carruades de Lafite in the basement – 1989 and 2000, I think. It’s a good 2nd, too.

  46. December 5, 2006

    Dominus

    Comparisons of 1st and 2nd growths to Peyton and Eli? Classic! I couldn’t have said it better.

    QOD: Is Reignac considered a 2nd growth? if it is, I love it, otherwise, I’ve had nothing memorable.

    Also, the name of a restaurant I have found to be compelling or special? In our area of the world, (DC/MD/VA) The Inn at Little Washington reigns supreme with Le Auberge Chez Francois. Both wonderful restaurants though for the wine geek, Charlie Palmer’s Steahouse, a stone’s throw away from the US Capitol is the place to go. You have the opportunity to order wine via a PC tablet. Now how cool is that!

    Dom

  47. December 5, 2006

    Tony S

    Gary,

    Give LaTour in Ridgewood, NJ a try (http://www.latourridgewood.com/)!

    You say “Ornellaia Le Serre Nuove 2004 for $20.00″ (not the $37.99 listed on the Wine Library web site)? I say I’ll order a case or two today!

    QOD: 2003 Chateau Lascombes.

  48. December 5, 2006

    John

    Les Fortes de Latour, the #1 #2

  49. December 5, 2006

    Jaye

    Gary, this was really a terrific episode — I am sure a lot of your viewers learned something completely new today. Kudos! I also love your little digs with that number. I’m guessing it’s the day you will finally put Tony out of his misery and do the much anticipated heat episode. :)

    As for my favorite second, I committed infanticide when I opened it, and it really was awful the first day, but a few days later the flavors were quite good showing a great deal of promise for when I try my next bottle in about 3 years . . . 2000 Clos du Marquis.

  50. December 5, 2006

    E-Rock

    Great show Gary!

  51. December 5, 2006

    Susan

    Gary-
    Another fabulous episode!
    Did not know anything about seconds until this episode.
    I am getting such a good education.
    Great stuff!
    QOD:
    Restaurants-
    I have 3 favs:
    American Fare:
    City Tavern – no one has better american food and wine for the money. Entrees start at about $9.00.
    Great atmosphere.
    Italian Fare:
    Mama Ricotta’s –
    NO ONE has better italian, it is freshly made every day and large portions and still entrees start at about $9.00.
    they have fabulous atmosphere and a bar at the door so you can get a drink while you stand in line. I LOVE the all you can eat garlic rolls and their Chicken Carciofa is to die for! Their tiramisu is SOOOOOOO big!
    Mexican Fare:
    Salsaritas:
    No one has more fresh food for less money. There is real and fabulous cheese in their nachos. Salads with bowls you can eat.
    Fabulous burritos, tacos and enchiladas and everyone in charlotte gets their chips and salsa to go.
    You can get alot of food for $8.00 (large burrito and a drink). Casual dining atmosphere.
    :)

  52. December 6, 2006

    Matt from Barossa

    QOD Langmeil Valley Floor Shiraz as a second wine to the Langmeil Freedom Shiraz… Then how about the Earthworks 2004 Shiraz also from Langmeil as a third wine to the second…

    Is there anything else I need to add?

  53. December 6, 2006

    canadian-kid

    top 100? all set U BET!!

    Another gooder gary..keep it up…

    side question: Le Crocodile is by far my favorite resturant in Vancouver, BC, Canada ( http://www.lecrocodilerestaurant.com/ ).

    QOTD: Just getting into wine so havnt experienced any second wines.

  54. December 6, 2006

    gordoyflaca

    Boston: The Butcher Shop
    Phoenix: Pizza Bianco
    DC: Cafe Atlantico

  55. December 6, 2006

    Don S.

    QOTD – I’m with KUHUNA – Hawks Crest is my favorite second label.

  56. December 6, 2006

    Miguelo DiMarco

    $!$!$!$!$!$!$!$1000 bucks for a bottle of wine? That’s about $40 an ounce. I hope you didn’t rinse any glasses with that stuff.

    Some favorite restaurants in NYC:

    The ~”Cuba”~ restaurant in the Village on Thompson for traditional Cuban food and live music
    http://www.cubanyc.com/cuba/media/cubarestaurant.html

    AND

    ~”44 Southwest”~ for Italian located on 9th/44th – SouthWest corner
    http://www.menupages.com/restaurantdetails.asp?neighborhoodid=0&restaurantid=3661
    (a menu is accessible from this page)

  57. December 6, 2006

    The British Doctor

    QOTD: I think Clos du Marquis (though not strictly a 2nd wine) is always great value, I also had a 1996 Reserve de la Comtesse – excellent stuff!!

    I think someone said La Mission Haut Brion – my undertanding is that this is a seperate chateau, not a 2nd wine of Haut Brion
    just to make it confusing you have

    Château Haut-Brion
    Château Larrivet-Haut-Brion
    Château Laville-Haut-Brion
    Château La Mission Haut-Brion
    Château La Tour Haut-Brion

  58. December 6, 2006

    Adam

    Recently went to BLT Prime in NYC… wow! Highly recommended!! We also enjoyed a bottle of Hollywood & Vine Cabernet Sauvignon “2480″ with dinner, could have been a 2003, I don’t remember. Everything was a hit!!!

  59. December 6, 2006

    Adam

    Also… (I posted above)….

    My favorite second label bottle…

    Crossbarn Cabernet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  60. December 6, 2006

    Susan

    QOD:
    The rest of the story:
    You may be getting a Salsarita’s near YOU soon. They are now in over 15 states.
    Salsaritas Web Site:

    http://www.salsaritas.com/

    :)

    Web site for Mama Ricottas:

    http://www.americascuisine.com/restmenu.cfm/cityId/13/restId/688

    AND

    Web site for City Tavern:

    http://www.city-tavern.com/ct/

    I hope some of you can find a Salsarita’s in your town soon!
    :)

  61. December 6, 2006

    Abel

    Okay, so I guess I am not a lurker anymore. Hard to say which is the best second label wine I have had. One of the problems I have noticed with second wines is that they tend to be highly inconsistent – even within the same vintage. For example, I once had an outstanding Pagodes de Cos, but when I later tried a second bottle of the same vintage, I was very disappointed. What do you think the source of this problem is? Is it that the winemakers are not as careful with the 2nd labels, or do you think the problem is with the people involved with the wine after it leaves the vineyard (e.g. distributors, retailers, etc.)?

  62. December 6, 2006

    Abel

    Bahans Haut Brion is the second label of Haut Brion.

  63. December 6, 2006

    Steve B

    Used to be Liberty School when Caymus still owned them – they’ve gone down a little since the split.
    I second Kahuna’s mention of Hawk Crest.

    I blogged about Second Labels wines back in August. Check it out
    http://blog.thegrapenuts.net/?p=36

  64. December 6, 2006

    Tony S.

    64th! Great episode, I love second labels cause they’re way cheaper and are sometimes almost as good. Thanks for doing that. I’d have to say that my favorite second label, that I can think of is probably the Pavillion Rouge de Margaux. Freakin’ rad. I had the 2000 a while ago and I can still taste the finish. It was so silky smooth. Yummy.

    Allright man…take care.
    Go Bears!
    T

    ps…I’m guessing about 257 days until your baby is due? 257 days is around 8 and half months away, so…it’s just a guess. Or is that a count-down until the 2007 NFL Training Camps open up?

  65. December 6, 2006

    Boucher

    Hey Gary,

    Next time you are in NYC, venture over the Manhattan Bridge to Brooklyn
    to have some lovely food and wine at Stonehomewinebar.
    The Chef has past experience cooking in the kitchen at Veritas.

    http://www.stonehomewinebar.com

    cheers JB

  66. December 6, 2006

    Roberto

    Raspberry jam Blackberry pie Blueberry Dark Cherry Choccolate and more…. and Jammie Marmellade !! Jammy Jammy Jammy !!!
    How Much jam is in your Basket >>??
    Spred it and eat it….instead then Drink it !!!

  67. December 6, 2006

    waibeans

    Heck yea with the juggling! Haven’t commented here before, but had to do it after seeing that! Friggin awesome Gary. Keep it up!!!!!

    see you in the forums,

    Wai

  68. December 6, 2006

    JR Laz

    Tony – no math expert, but it’s pretty tough to start an 8 1/2 month countdown for human gestation, unless Gary is going ‘immaculate reception’ on us. : )

    39 weeks is normal gestation, and typically one learns at about 6 weeks in. That’s 231 days. Baby theory is out unless Gary is working some serious MJ mojo or something (”He shoots….he SCORES!!).

    - Laz

  69. December 6, 2006

    Lawrence Leichtman

    $38 for the second line Ornellalia seems a bit too high unless you think that it beats other $40 wines. I have had the second line wines from every one of the major Bordeaux’s and have never been impressed other than the second line from Lafitte tha I think Carruades de Lafitte but it is no longer any bargain often going over $200 itself. One of my favorite restaurants with a great wine list is Bridges Restaurant in Danville , CA http://www.bridgesdanville.com

  70. December 6, 2006

    Caesar D

    Great show Gary,

    My best second wine (that I can remember)? Was the 2001 Ornellaia Le Serra del Nuove. Comparing cost to the Ornellaia’s first wine “Ornellaia”, the QPR factor kicks in.

    CDF

  71. December 6, 2006

    Louisiana George

    i guess you would consider 1977 Mondavi Napa Cab to be the 2nd to the Reserve.

    poking around ebay a few years ago, bought a bottle for about $40 without high expectations. took it to supper with my wife for an anniversary. decanted at the table and was fantastic. good from the start and evolved into about 4 different wines over about 2 hours. loved it, especially for the price for a 25+ year old wine.

    Louisiana George

  72. December 7, 2006

    Kirkland M

    1st time lurker posting. QOTD – “The Orphan” by Justin is a 2nd label favorite of mine. Do a port tasting! I got spoiled as my first taste was a 1963 Quinta do Noval.

  73. December 8, 2006

    JayZee

    QOD: The best second label wine I have ever had is the 2000 Carruades de Lafite. It is drinking really well right now. I give it a solid 90 points.

  74. December 9, 2006

    phig

    Due date?

  75. December 12, 2006

    David Canada

    Best so far……2000 Les Forts de Latour but it needs another 10 years still!

  76. December 15, 2006

    Redhawk

    Jumping in late, but what the heck

    QOTD: Does the “regular” Shafer cab count as a second to Hillside Select? If so, that’s my pick. If not, it’s maybe a tie between ‘96 La Criox de Beaucaillou and ‘01 Pagodes de Cos (OK–edge probably to the Pagodes). I didn’t care for my bottle of ‘96 les Forts de Latour–too vegetal.

  77. January 20, 2007

    thomas korent

    This is really late – considering the time the episode went “on air”…my favourite second wine was a 2001 Lucente – the second wine to Mondavi and Frescobaldi’s Luce. In Europe only about 25$ – in Canada 27 Canadian Dollars. Spectator said 92 points. I, for once, agree. And, at that price…I say quite a value – especially considering that because of the relatively low merlot percentage, you should best drink this wine after 2010 – and that’s an ageing potential I haven’t seen in many second wines…can’t wait to open the rest of the case…

  78. March 3, 2007

    Alos Diallo

    I really like this episode, I had actually wondered about many of the second wines and how good they are. Nice Job!

  79. January 14, 2008

    Sharon

    Ooh, what was thay you were saying about Peyton and Eli? :-)
    If you’re ever in Groton, MA, (outside Rt. 495 belt) check out Gibbet Hill Grille. They even have a fairly imaginative wine list:
    http://www.gibbethill.com/index.htm

  80. September 26, 2009

    John J.

    qotd; Liberty School, lol kidding. I had a great Duhart-Milon Rothchild a couple years back. That may not be the 2nd growth of theirs, now I gotta double check that.
    side qotd: Tersiguel’s just outside Baltimore. French restaurant, killer food wines and service. You get fine dining without the snooty pretension. I had the pleasure of meeting their chef, Michel. He’s was/is the youngest person to win Grand Master Chef of America. He won 2 years in a row if I remember correctly. Gary, can we get a charbono tasting episode? How about a vin jaune 1?

  81. September 26, 2009

    John J.

    their website is tersiguels.com

  82. November 7, 2009

    Patrick Horn

    QOTD: Quilceda Creek 2002 Columbia Valley Red Wine. After drinking this with a dinner theme featuring fresh picked Chanterelle mushrooms, I signed up for their mailing list. Then Parker published his two 100 pt. scores for back to back vintages of the top wine. Glad I tasted this stuff when I did!

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