Wine Library TV Live! (Rebroadcast) - Episode #170

January 19, 2007

Wines tasted in this episode:

• 2004 Philip Togni Spring Mt Cabernet Sauvignon
• 2002 Vineyard 29 Aida Red

Links mentioned in todays episode.

• Donate to Project H for Erik K.

Here’s the rebroadcast of the live episode. Smoking servers and some smoking wine.

441 Responses

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1. about 7 months ago

   thefanjestic

   It’s like watching the Microsoft crash only less embarrasing! Still pretty darn funny, and Gary always keeps his cool - but was he throwing bottles around afterwards?

2. about 20 months ago

   SS Chris

   Gary,

   You should answer “ThomasS” comment(#435) on the air.

3. about 20 months ago

   wine_goddess

   nice job… would like to hear more about the history and vision of some of these wineries… perhaps, you can do a top 100 list for wines under $100!! =)

4. about 20 months ago

   yoshi

   Great episode. I loved the behind the scenes.
   Most comments ever on an episode?

5. about 20 months ago

   Lawrence Leichtman

   MAcGeek, love my new Intel Powerbook. Runs my Mac software like crazy and runs Vista (last beta copy) in parallel even better than my Dell (that is now for sale!). This is going to be hard going cold turkey on wine comments for 10 days. Hope the forums heat up somewhat.

6. about 20 months ago

   Ken

   Gary,

   I’m happy for you in that the live WLTV broadcast finally worked out after crashing.

   Thanks for the gift of free shipping. I bought a few cellar defenders but I was bummed out that the Von Hovel Riesling you reviewed the other day was sold out by the time I ordered. It sounds fantastic and I’ll be looking for it.

   Enjoy you vacation & thanks again.

7. about 20 months ago

   ThomasS

   Gary, so bad I couldn’t join in for the live ep. Pitty, all that boring distraction from the real thing … :D.
   Anyway, I have to tell you something: you know, you started with that remark on the Bordeaux 2005’s. Well, I wouldn’t say I don’t agree with you, but I’ve always tried not to forget to bring some home made criticism in the game here. I know all that jazz about the supply demand, market values, new commercial territory etc., it’s all true. Really, no question about that! Yet, what most people tend to forget (and often willingly tend to forget) is that our market has some kind of high level organisation in the stock market system, compared to the low level ‘everyday’ idea of the market. Both systems are interlinked by their fundamental way in dealing with the commercial AND the symbolical value of a given product. In the one system there’s more emphasis on the commercial, in the other more on the symbolical value. At least, that’s what it is actually designed for. And here is the problem with i.e. the Bordeaux market: symbolical value and commercial value are mixed, there’s no difference between both of them anymore (that’s right, I’m talking about difference, not about the essence of both values, because they don’t exist without differing from each other), they are egalized and equalized, which prevents them in an inevitable way to balance each other (follow me?). This balance in the commercial system (for the stock market, that’s something else, not being that important in the wine business, that is: the production part of the wine business, in this particular case), is embodied by the QPR, also a factor that’s determined by differences, available in the ranges of quality and commercial value. Yet, when commercial value equals symbolical value … the commercial value and the quality of this or that wine are discursively equalized (discursively! That is NOT virtually) which, to my opinion, is really something most people (in wine business or just as wine lovers) easily like to forget, when it comes to price changes in the wine market. And yes, to put it in a very simplistic way: when quality equals commercial value equals symbolical value, there is no ‘difference’ anymore, … the sole prerequisite for QPR. Now, of course it’s not that bad, we are not as far as that, but it’s an element that’s very active in for instance the wine consumers mind. Think about Southern France: wines are seen as of low quality, why? Partly because the prices are low, causing the producers to become part of a downward spiral … Of course, WE now that there are terrific wines produced in that area … but how small a bunch of players are we on the market? How small is the group of wine lovers that really seek out what’s in the bottle and not on the price tag? Think about that! It’s a very small group, literally of no IMPORTance.
   There is of course the fact that there is a limited production, that there are more consumers playing on the market, … but this discursive jinx is something that’s never taken into account (because it’s to difficult to put into numbers, I am aware of that, BUT, is THAT a reason???! Think about it, and think i.e. about what happened 80 years ago! Read about the forebodes …). Why not? Obviously because it questions the whole system and is a fairly complex thing (hey, no, I’m not a complot theory believer, I’m just serious about the way the market, the market discourse works). That’s what’s going on with Bordeaux recently, has always been going on with Burgundy and Champagne, and that’s what causes the prices not to drop according to the relative outcome of the vintage in se (compare 2001 to 2000, i.e.).
   This is one of the reasons why I am positively appalled by the price raisings in Bordeaux: they have nothing to do anymore with scarceness, inherent quality, … it’s all about this cancereous outgrowth of marketing discourse (don’t worry I’m a marketing guy to, so it’s not the marketing business I’m aiming at), having inevitable consequences for marketing in se, but also for the wine business. So, I really don’t believe there is a (market-)CORRECTION going on here, whatever you mean with that. What will be the eventual outcome of this … I don’t know. The only thing I know is that I have been much more restrained in buying my cases 2005’s (Lagrange, Léoville Barton, Haut-Brion and some others). Not because they are not ok, or not because they are all overpriced, or all that crap … No, just because there is something about this valuation egalisation I really want to stand up against: I just try to prevent my own palate from being influenced by this very aggressive wine marketing discourse.
   Just consider this: what about the QPR of for instance 2004/2005 Ausone and 2004/2005 Léoville Barton (just make abstraction of the cru-system, because that’s a parameter of symbolical value here, and in it’s overpowering the QPR, is the problem here)? Huh? I don’t think so, if you follow me … . Something more? What about the competition with other wines (i.e. Cali Cabs, SA Cab/merl/pv/…)? Huh? Why isn’t there anything visible of that in here? I know why, if you follow me in what I said, I am sure you’ll think the same … . So, changing the wine world is for me in the first place being aware of wine discourse and being able to distinguish the difference covered up by that particular discourse. Pensive guy? Yes I am! And when I’m not I really enjoy my coke .
   Go on man! You make people question, that’s the only way to go …
   QOTD: server down? An almost 100% carignan, Aux Temps d’Histoire from Domaine du Grand d’Arc. Orangette with chocolate, dark, dark, melancholy wine, bittersweet fruits, jasmine and all that. Indescribable.
   C ya.

8. about 20 months ago

   Deano

   Hey Gary I am upset that I had to miss the live episode. I was in monterey CA drinking some wine and relaxing. I drank some Ventana from Monterey. It was a 2003 CAB and it was pretty good. I poured a glass and looked at my fiance and said this one is for Gary since I cant see him live LOL I will be there for the next live episode though. I hope you have a good time on vacation. I will not know what to do without the episodes for that long lol. Well catch you later.

9. about 20 months ago

   Susan

   More than 432 comments!
   What can I say?
   Gary- don’t think you are lacking for comments on this ep!
   

10. about 20 months ago

    IntoTheFray

    Ack looks like I missed all nicer QPR wines on the free shipping. Went ahead and picked out a case to compare tasting notes for fun. Thank you. Enjoy your vacation.

11. about 20 months ago

    Big Billy from Big D

    Great effort, Gary. Now go and relax for 10 days.

    Good news - WLTV doesn’t need a live session to succeed. We are getting very timely stuff on a daily release 5 days a week. Thanks.

12. about 20 months ago

    AlisonD

    Sorry I missed the live broadcast! Have a great vacation!

13. about 20 months ago

    monrovino

    great show! looking forward to the next one.

14. about 20 months ago

    Seth - MacGeek

    Nice powerbook. It is time for an intel machine!

    seth

15. about 20 months ago

    Jim Kay

    Man, am I slow. No. 427.

    BTW please don’t leave the impression that Bordeaux’s big names are in imited supply. Mouton 320,000 bottles/year, Lynch Bages - 480,000 btls/year, same for Lafite, Latour 350,000. Figures from Stephen Brrok’s latest book.
    These wines will always be available. Someone just auctioned off 50 (fifty) cases of 1982 Mouton. Prices will go up, but as they are high on release, they won’t go up that much for a while.

    Love the Togni, better than most Bordeaux, and now it cost less.

16. about 20 months ago

    JOEYdaMUSH

    Sucks that I missed all of the excitement. Next time 5:30 est Gary.

17. about 20 months ago

    Grasshopper

    Sensei,

    Sorry I missed the live attempt but I enjoyed watching the tape and following the comments. Thanks for the free shipping, I will definatley be ordering before the weekend is over.

    Have a great Vacation! We will all be just fine (mild DT’s but we will make…I hope)…and want you to refresh and enjoy your time off.

    Have fun!

    Grasshopper

18. about 20 months ago

    Ania

    Sorry your live videocast didn’t work out. Thank you very much for the free shipping! Have a great vacation!

19. about 20 months ago

    Rick "The Model" M

    Comments are booming baby.

20. about 20 months ago

    Capt M

    I could not be here b/c I had to go to work exactly at 4 pm. But I love this episode. What a show! what a bargain! what a friendship! And I must say that in this show you presented two very SERIOUS wines. That was impressive. These two wines are NO JOKE. THANKS! We wish you a safe trip, and a very well deserved a delightful vacation. We WILL miss you. A lot of YOU, with a little bit of us, Gary.

21. about 20 months ago

    Lawrence Leichtman

    Safe travels and thanks. Since I opened my bottle of Dunn (amazing wine) and started drinking too early didn’t get this live but even the taped show was great. For a borken server I would recommend a bottle or 2 of MD 20/20 maybe a Friday vintage. Didn’t know you were a Mac person, now I like you even better. Hope it wasn’t a Mac server that crashed. Maybe consult with Steve Jobs before the next live taping. With your popularity you are probably close to his level by now

22. about 20 months ago

    ATLien

    Safe travels Gary!

23. about 20 months ago

    ChrisR

    Couldn’t watch live but fun none-the-less. Have a great vacation!

24. about 20 months ago

    Vinacull

    Gary,
    Hats off to the effort, and better luck next try. As comment 418, have we broken some kind of record? Looks like I missed a real party with people waiting for the EP while the server crashed. Ah well, the ‘04 JL Chave Cotes du Rhone was drinking very nicely after 4 hours decant. HAVE A WONDERFUL VACATION GARY. Much deserved. Cheers, CK

25. about 20 months ago

    Susan

    Gary-
    Is that a Mac Book Pro I see?
    I have an iBook.
    You have lots of Cool Apple Toys!!!!!
    

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