QOTD: I've never had kosher wine.

QOTD: I've never had any kosher wine. I don't care about "kosherness", so I've never sought one out. I still won't, although if a good one comes my way, I'm game.

Interesting show on kosher wine. Is there a possibility of trying out altar wines?

Being Jewish I grew up around Kosher wines, and there are plenty of them that all tasted the same to me growing up in the '80s. Very boring stuff and all the same. Finding a good Kosher wine in the 80s to me was not easy at all, of course I wasn't looking as I was a little kid, but I have always remembered the taste of those wines.

I have not bought any Kosher wines myself until today, so I'm very curious how they will taste.

What I bought:

2004 Chateau Leoville Poyferre Saint Julien
2003 Yarden Syrah

Tough episode, Gary. Sorry that none of the wines were really bringing the thunder, esp. the last wine. Your poor face!! QOTD: Never had a single Kosher wine yet, but Im sure to try one down the line.

Hey Gary and Vayniacs,
The political considerations in the comments here was fascinating. i lived in Israel for several years, and currently work the wine director of a kosher restaurant, so have been in many of these debates before. Without going into it too much, I try to support the israeli wine industry, but avoid wines from the West Bank and especially Hevron, which is one of the more right-wing and controversial settlements. There are lots of great Israeli wines from the Galille region or the north, such as many mentioned below - Teperberg, Tisbhi, Galil, Dalton, etc. They tend to go very new world in style, with the exception of Castel, which produces great Bordeaux style wines.
One producer that often gets overlooked is Ernie Weir of Hagafen. His Syra, Cab and Prix Meritage are outstanding, and good values even with the kosher markup. Very worth trying

I tasted the Teperberg Meritage 2006 yesterday and thought it was super yummy.

Hey Gary! So I'm a newbie and I've been watching a marathon of your shows today. Was finally convinced to say hello! Glad you did one on the kosher wines. Manechevitz makes me want to hurl, but I can never find anything kosher that's reallly happenin'. Even tried the new zealand goose bay sauv blanc because i love the tropical notes of those marlborough sauv blancs, but was dissappointed in its lack of tropical and citrus.

will you do another kosher wine show? one i tasted and liked was the special reserve "Z" Zinfandel from baron herzog.

Great show. Tasted the Hebron Heights Pardess last week so I know what you're talking about. Also had the HH's Isaac's Ram. Similarly disappointing. Both of these wines, as well as the Syrah are not among HH's best offerings, which imo are quite good.

If you can, check out the 2002 HH's Armigeddon. Heavy on the oak, but boy what a wine! Their Makhpelah is also outstanding.

Other Israeli kosher wines that rock: Castel Grand Vin 2003. Yatir Forest 2003. Yarden Brut, non-vintage. Binyamina 2003 Sirah Chosen Series "Ruby." A knockout! The Cave 2003.

Benhaim 2003 Cab Sav. Reserve.

"Tha GV"

COK

QOTD- Never had any Kosher wine.

QOTD: NOOOO I've never had a Kosher wine... that's one more to add to the "yet to be tasted" list.

Al:
That's interesting...I can respect that. It does bring me to another question though. Does this mean that a waiter can serve wine if he opens it right in front of the patron and leaves the open bottle on the table remaining in view of the religiously observant patron? Can he later return to the table so as to refill the glasses?

Lifestooshort: You make a good point, I must reconsider my own argument.

TommyTom:
Just to respond; to explain why the prohibition applies to non-jews touching open wine bottles without actually touching the wine. In ancient times (when judaism was the only monotheistic religion) pagans would worship their idols, among other ways, by pouring wine upon the alter. Such wine would be prohibited to jews to drink. Consequently, a decree was enacted prohibiting consumption of all open bottles or casks of wine touched by non-jews because perhaps a pagan "tilted" or poured the wine with the intention of serving their idol. The decree was originally prescribed only to open casks or bottles for obvious reasons. Under the Jewish system of Stare Decisis (binding power of precedent) the decree remains in force today.

Lifestooshort: Nicely put.

MetalDave: If the UN is your moral compass, then you may as well not drink wine produced by any UN member country which refuses to officially recognize the ongoing genocide in Darfur.

Sorry, but MetalDave can't drink any US wines, either. Our actions in Iraq have directly led to the deaths of tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people. In fact, relative to Israel? Our occupation of Iraq has killed a LOT more people than Israelis have--and that's just in the last few years, forget about decades of occupation. And yes, wine is fun, but if you're gonna bring politics into it, better be consistent in your logic...

a LOT of dudes don't wash their hands, and what's up with that? I've got my excretory member of congress out, handling things and whatnot--I wanna share that with the world? What's up with that?? Didn't mama teach these people nothin'?

Yes, I know it was about Kosher wines, not Israeli wines.

I'm not going to get into a debate about Israel because this is not the place. I will say however, that of all of the countries you mentioned, Israel is the only one CURRENTLY perpetrating gross human rights violations and also the only one whose policies and "borders" are in direct violation of UN law. Once they comply with UN law and end the human rights abuses, I will be happy to forgive all past indescretions and drink all the Israeli wine I can find, just as I now drink South African wine (and German wine for that matter). The point of my boycott is to put economic pressure to effect change, not to judge or play a moral equivalence "hand." Also, using past crimes to justify present ones is a flawed policy.

Also, to say that "the French collaborated with the Nazis" is quite inaccurate. Yes, a traitorous portion of the French population did collaborate with the Nazis, but apart from that there was a large passive population and a large resistance. Also, the de Rothschild family (Chateau Lafite, Chateau Mouton-Rothschild, et. al.) are Jewish so I would seriously doubt their collaboration.

Anyway, forget about it - WINE IS FUN!!!!

Sorry for the double entry on the political issue--I did not realize it posted, due to an error...I just got the same error with this entry

Please excuse the second entry on the Political topic--- I thought that my first statement failed to post due to error

I have a question for any kosher wine drinker able to answer. As a bartender, I have been told that, because I am not Jewish I cannot serve kosher wine nor can I even handle the bottle. Simply put, I cannot contact the wine.

My question is what does that mean? As long as I don't dip my finger inside a filled glass, how is my touching the bottle different from the delivery person carrying a case (ultimately handling the wine), or the driver transporting the load, etc.? How would by touching the bottle amount to comming in "contact" with the wine in a manner greater than that of the delivery driver, or the stockperson in a wineshop?

#190 es Muy Lamo

MetalDave; I feel your pain --Kosher wines, yes...Israeli wines, no

LMoC, If boycotting American products would help the plight of the natives, then why not? If doing the same with Australian did the same, then again, yes....but the fact is that such efforts would prove futile, for these crimes are history. All human cultures are guilty of crimes against humanity, it's in our nature.

Focusing of the here and now, future results can indeed be achieved by denouncing Israel with such boycotts. Israel's actions actually do stand a chance of being tempered. As for Native Americans, their plight is tragic albeit history.

MetalDave, I can relate...kosher wines yes, Israeli wines no!
LMoC Certainly, all of mankind representing all cultures is guilty of crimes against humanity. However, those of Israel are most recent and most relavent in the present. Boycotting American products will do nothing for the natives, for their fight is history. Israel's actions, on the other hand, can be tempered and something CAN actually be done by leading such denunciations as boycotts. Doing such things agains Australia, etc. would be futile.

MetalDave: The episode was about Kosher wine, not Israeli wines. There are Israeli wines which are not Kosher, and there are Kosher wines which are not Israeli.

If political persuasions are going to be a factor in shaping your wine consumption habits:
Forget American wine. It's "Wine from Occupied Native American Territory."
Forget wine from France and Austria, as they collaborated with the Nazis. Forget Australian wine. It's "Wine from Occupied Native Aboriginal Territory."

If you're going to play the moral equivalence hand, as so many critics of Israel do, then please, at least be consistent.

QOTD: No.

Just as South African products were boycotted during Apartheid, so should all Israeli products. No one should ever buy Israeli wine. If you want Kosher wine, get it from somewhere else. "Israel's" best wines come from Syria anyway. In fact, one Scandanavian country has now required that all wines produced in the Golan Heights be labeled as "Wine from Israeli-Occupied Syrian Territory."

new viewer...love the show...live in napa

QOTD: sorry bro...I have not....but maybe someday

QOTD: Nope.

Sorry, meant to add that Israel's Recanati, Katlov's Cab, Teperberg(formerely Efrat), especially the higher end (I just discovered the Teperberg Meritage blend for about $13 and it is truly truly excellent) are truly excellent wines.

Unfortunately many of the Israeli wines, especially the boutiques are still not available or only available in small numbers in the US but Castel, Golan, Terperberg, etc. are available in the US.

But Gary -- what's with your idea that kosher wines only got good in the past 36 months? Where have you been -- Golan has been operating since '82, and many of the Israeli boutiques started in the late 90s or 2000-2002 (at least 5 years ago) and of course larger wines like Herzog, etc. have been doing well for quite some time and even Carmel has been improving for several years (although I still prefer Golan over Carmel).

Well, I live in Israel and keep kosher so I tend to drink kosher wines. These were some very odd choices Gary made -- 2 from Hevron Heights (which, as noted above, Rogov does not rate well and is not something I drink, although some are supposed to be decent). But kosher wine isn't Manishevitz and needs to stop being thought of that.

My recommendations are Domaine du Castel (Israeli, one of Israel's best wineries -- The Castel Grand Vin (about $50) is absolutely amazing to me -- the best wine I have ever had and their second label Petit Castel (about $25-$30) isn't far behind). Golan Heights Winery (Yarden, Gamla, Golan) makes excellent wines (a mix of high quality Yarden's to $6 Golan's which are still very good for an everyday wine and what I tend to drink weekly).
Israel's Recanati, Katlov,

And of course there are now plenty of quality non-kosher Israeli wines too. The production isn't different in terms of the wine making process (it's simply that only observant Jews can touch it and no non-kosher [think animal remnants or dairy products] fining agents can be used)). Castel didn't change when it went kosher in 2003, and is a top producer.

I haven't had it but California's HaGafen is supposed to be truly excellent, as are California's Herzog. Italy's Bartenura is pretty good. France's Fortant isn't bad either.

There is simply no reason to avoid a wine just because it's kosher. Particularly the wines not targeted at very religious people (like Hevron Heights is) are better - and no less kosher - for market reasons (trying to appeal to a more sophisticated palate).

Why did the Napa Cab get 69 points? A 70$ bottle tasting worse than a 10$ bottle deserves a far worse score.

qotd: no

QOTD: I think the Baron Herzon Jeunesse, which I tried at your recommendation. Was that above $20? 'Can't recall. Anyhoo, I enjoyed it. It was syrupy and cloying - don't think I'd buy it twice, but it was a fun experiment for passover. Yeah, I'm Jewish, and that's how we roll, Vayniac-style! Hava Nagila, y'all.

Never had a kosher wine....above $25 or below.

QOTD - no. pazzzz.

newbie

Mr. Cabernet, you may want to try Segals' 2002 Special Reserve Merlot. It's hit or miss with Kosher wines, but I really enjoyed it and you can pick one up for $11-$15. Don't know how the '03 tastes.

QOTD - No, never tried a kosher wine at all. And I think it'd be safe to say I'll never spend any of my own money to try one. They simply do not interest me whatsoever.

QOTD: I grew up where everyone was Italian, so no, no kosher wines there. 8 days to go...