Discussing Cork vs. Screwcaps during a Grab Bag Wine Tasting

Discussing Cork vs. Screwcaps during a Grab Bag Wine Tasting – Episode #654

April 7, 2009

Gary Vaynerchuk and Liza “The Wine Chick” Zimmerman taste 3 totally different wines and debate the relative merits of cork and screwcap enclosures.

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Comments on this episode(254) Leave a comment ›

“GV, I really find it hard to believe that screwtop wines flavors are g…” by eharms
“I enjoy the show, and Gary’s always very entertaining. I love the Pet…” by Ben
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Wines tasted in this episode:

2007 Mythic River Sauv BlancGreek White Wine
2006 Bleasdale Langhorne Crossing Shiraz/ CabernetAustralian Red Meritage
2007 Descendientes De Jose Palacios Bierzo PetalosBierzo

Links mentioned in today’s episode.

254 Responses

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April 10, 2009

Sonic Paul
I’m sorry? The acid is high in Sicilian whites?
April 10, 2009

Aaron
This guest was very knowledgeable about what she liked and what it meant to her. Excellent discussion about corks, as I hear crazy stats about 5% ruined when I have yet to notice those 5%!
April 10, 2009

bachus'n'ariadne
i’m with u on that one GV,the percent of corked wines is minute!but most people really just wanna show off,especially when they know u can’t argue with them;i call this ‘taking the piss’.in the UK,or in london at least,very very very few restaurants/wine bars use decanters;and when u don’t decant a 5-9 year red,specially the big boys,some of them are simply pathetic on the nose,and pipo take this as corked:i think this is ridiculous!screwcaps are for drink now wines;and i hope this doesn’t change. there’s too much propaganda on screwcaps that might bury use of corks;especially that screwcap packaging is economically advantageous for winemakers.I’ve had more wine go down my throat than rain has on the amazon,and only came across 3 corked wines,and one corked champagne;yesterday!!!
April 10, 2009

hasbeen
Great guest. You surprised me by your disbelief in the cork producer’s statistics. My experience would say a little over two percent. I asked a friend at the largest wine seller in Minnesota and he said he found it to be around eight percent.
April 10, 2009

Victor
Hey Gary:
I confessed I haven’t seen your show for a while.
Sorry; too many late night “wine tastings”.
I was advised to watch this episode by many who felt it was one of the best shows you have done.
I couldn’t agree more!!
Liza was informed, funny and clearly a great match to your style.
Its great to see people who are passionate about something find kindred spirits and join in the revelry.
Both of you have clear likes and preferences and its iluminating to see highly educated, passionate wine “experts” agree to disagree and have fun and promote their views.
Absolutely terrific show!!
When can Liza return??!!
April 10, 2009

Dr. Lance
As a person who lives by research and statistics, I would advise you to trust in the 2% statistic, as I am certain that the cork people have invested quite a lot in that research.
April 9, 2009

Grapedigger
Good show guys..In my experience approximately 1% of the wines that I had were corked. cheers
April 9, 2009

Pete B
Gary, fun show. I really enjoyed the cork vs. screw top throw-down. I agree that it doesn’t seem possible that 2% of wines are flawed.

QOTD – I decided not to google this to find the answer so I’ll just say that I have no idea.
April 9, 2009

DrDan
Across the tens of thousands of bottles that WS opens each year, they claim that 7% are corked. However, I agree with you guys, I think that the incidence of noticeable corking is much lower. I’ve only noticed corking in a few white wines; it’s generally harder to pick out in reds. Also, here is a WS video comparing a five-year old chablis bottled each way, a screw cap and cork–exactly the same bottling of the wine. http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid353549858?bclid=1527680295&bctid=1137746585
April 9, 2009

OzJeff
Regarding corked bottles, in my opinion it depends on where the wine comes from and what quality. Buying cheap (but not mass produced) Bordeaux in French supermarkets I have easily gotten 5% corked, if not more. And yes, I do know when a wine is corked. On the other hand in many other regions, especially new world, I rarely have corked wines. As your guest noted, out of Spain and Portugal I often get other “defects” such as Brett or Mercaptans, mostly due to the traditional methods of wine making still in use there. People’s ability to perceive these things varies and so it can happen that some people like the wine for the added complexity the defect brings, whilst others find it off putting.

QOTD. No idea, but without Googling I’ll guess it’s Bananas.
April 9, 2009

Seattle Zin Guy
Is it just me or does this episode skip at 26:23?
April 9, 2009

Ivan
With all due respect, I love it when Gary just out passions and out knowledges (not on purpose I’m sure) his guests who are wine “experts” in their own right. Crush it baby!
April 9, 2009

Smahlatz
Hmm
* It’s Worcestershire sauce – say Woos-ter-sheer
* The reduction talk wasn’t really nerdy – it would be nerdy if there was some in depth explanation – Reduction is simply the reverse of oxidation is it not? – The opposite part of the same reaction, the reduced side accepts an electron from the oxidised side. So if you get a wine with reduced aromas, surely exposing it to oxygen (decant it) will remedy the situation – this is what is referred to as smells blowing off isn’t it? I don’t know, I am not an expert. But if a reduced wines odours simply blow off, what is the problem? Also, aren’t wines slighty reduced just pior to bottling? The screwcap just maintains this state – it does not cause it, so wine makers may need to use different techniques when making wined destined for stelvin encolsures.
* Isn’t Chateau Margaux doing some experiments with screwcaps – starting with 2002 Pavillon Rouge ? It will be very ineresting to see how that comes out. I also believe there were a lot of experiments done in Australia 20 or 30 years ago.
April 9, 2009

Scott the ex wine dude
The last case of white wine I bought had 3 bottles that were corked. My overall experience has been something like 6-8% corked. The last few years I was in the wine business, I noticed quite a sharp increase in corked bottles, either returned by customers (and verified by me), bought for my consumption or even the sales people opening bottles to taste me on & discovering they were corked. Screwcaps have a definite place in the wine world but, unfortunately, truly age worthy wines still need corks in order to mature properly.
April 9, 2009

Diablito
For some reason a lot of the statistics on “corked wine” come not from an actual TCA contaminated cork but from a spoiled or oxidized wine. Storage and long term temperature conditions play a great role on how a wine develops.

I read a comment above from Brenda where she says that “the smell was vinegary…” This is oxidation rather than TCA.

Correct me if I’m wrong but under poor storage conditions a bottle of wine will get oxidized or spoiled no matter if it’s closed with cork, plastic or screwcap. Add to this the fact that the average liquor store does not have the proper temperature for long term storage and you’ll get an even larger number of spoiled wines.

Cheers…

QOTD: Didn’t make it this far.
April 9, 2009

Igor
The worst guest you’ve ever had Gary. You should of brown bagged this one.
This was a Pro-cork show. Really disappointed in the lack of information you have both not read in regard to studies on screw cap pro’s. Stelvin closures let air into the btl. in every study I’ve read?? 0.2-0.4. And people like her judge wines??People like this turn people away from wine. Classic example LOL
April 9, 2009

Pangaea
Sorry. Had to stop it early.

Just didnt feel the guest.

Seemed arrogant.
April 9, 2009

sniffer
gary, enjoyed the guest great info shared and got a little nerdy(which is ok)

qtod..maybe you should not call the “FANS” you “CARE” so much about jerkoffs, because we might use google to answer a question. or is it the dollar you “care” so much about
April 9, 2009

A
could it be amarula??
April 9, 2009

Ben
Rough guest. sorry…
April 9, 2009

apj_bobswineguy
great great great – this girl was so real. so knowledgeable, that many of the comments above do not acknowledge that she got GV excited.
You two went back & forth on topics, debating, agreeing, skipping to other topics. Really, who else knows all those Portuguese regions????
I had to hit pause and get out the Wine Atlas! And I scored very high on the CSW. You guys didn’t even skip a beat & started debating which region was best?!!!! Great & amazing.

I have switched from following scores ( helpful if you are new to wine – no doubt) to hating them. I really doubt the 90 point score. 94 and above – for some reason, I believe that. But the exact 90 – be afraid. It could be bought. Sort of like points on a mortgage. 87, 88, 89 gets to 90 or 91 if you buy advertising or are the EU guys landlord (check that out if you follow me).
April 9, 2009

YoungDave
Solid episode. GARY- I hate to disagree, but I am not 100% with you about corked wine percentages. In my experience of opening a hundred or two bottles per week at our wine bar & restaurant, I usually have to get credit for about a bottle every week or two. I smell and taste these wines myself, and not including the few bottles that are slightly off due to minor bottle variation, these one out of 100 or 200 are blatantly, truly, moldy newspaper-smelling and bitter corked! 2% IS high, but .5% or so in my experience is fairly accurate.
I DO agree, also from a buyer’s perspective, that wine reps, importers and distributors definitely over-play the “off bottle” card when the wine is simply not up to par. KEEP BREAKING WILLS!!!! ( I do the same thing and they hate it… until they realize that you’re right).

QOTD: I actually didn’t have to look this one up because I remember the Amarula liqueur that I used to serve at a dessert-centric restaurant a few years ago in Boston, made from the Marula fruit. Someone said “coffee” in the comments which I thought was a brilliant also-possibly-correct answer.
April 9, 2009

Al S
Interesting as always. Makes me wonder, BTW if you could do a yeast show. I’m not sure what that would entail, but if anyone can make it work it’s Gary V.

Also, there was an interesting article on Appellation America a while back (http://tinyurl.com/cbbmxh) talking about the properties of cork and whether there is any support for the idea that cork closures slowly let oxygen into the wine and allow it to age. The author seems to think that they don’t (and he thinks that it wouldn’t be a good thing even if they did let it in).

I love using corks, but I think it comes down to the same thing as everything else: Respect tradition, but don’t rest on pretension or habit as a justification for doing things. Get out there, keep an open mind and see what works. If you can really get better wine from a screw-top, a mylar bag, or a keg, do it.
April 8, 2009

dusanmal
A+ episode!

Personal experience is quite in agreement with GV’s estimate of corked wine distribution. In 20+ years of daily wine consumption (let’s say order of 100 bottles per year) I have literally encountered one and only one clearly corked and thus badly spoiled wine. That gives an estimate of 1 per 2000, so close to GV’s… It was so distinct that I am sure I’d get even a less prominent effect, but than as Leftcoast mentions – my senses may not be tuned into it…
Interesting side note on consequences of corked wine: Even one single corked bottle have had a significant impact. Although I rationally understand how-and-why it have happened and I rationally know that the producer is of high esteem (it was Louis Latour wine) – I never could bring myself again to purchase any other of their products. And it have been about 7-8 years since…
April 8, 2009

Leftcoast
Quite shocking that Gary can’t detect TCA very well. I see corked wines almost every day and it is absurd to think it is 1 in 2500 or whatever. The cork industry is doing a great deal to reduce this number and they are succeeding. Just ten years ago there was probably 10 times more TCA in corks than there is today.