Wine as Investment – Episode #737

September 11, 2009

Gary Vaynerchuk discusses wine investments and European views on the wine world with Adrian Lenegan of Provenance Fine Wines from England.

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Comments on this episode(138) Leave a comment ›

“great show. VERY interesting to hear your combined comments on Jancis….” by Jon Regan
“QOTD: How much time do you think I have??…” by jayhitek
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Wines tasted in this episode:

2006 Pousse D’or Corton Clos Du RoiCorton

Links mentioned in todays episode.

138 Responses

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October 8, 2009

Jon Regan
great show. VERY interesting to hear your combined comments on Jancis. I’ve been drawn to her tasting notes more and more on the Farr Vinters website (London company). She seems more genuine and certain of herself. Parker appears to hedge his bets a bit more.

Q
John – DRC
Paul – Palmer
George – barbaresco
Ringo – grange
September 25, 2009

jayhitek
QOTD: How much time do you think I have??
September 24, 2009

Timinspokane
Cool guest! I think it is interesting that people trust him with pretty large sums of money for wine investments when he doesn’t seem to have that much knowledge about fine wines. But, it is all about “connections” sometimes…

QOTD… pretty funny! I would have to say that John Lennon is a Napa cabernet, a little full of himself, a little self-important, but quite a likeable fellow… Paul McCartney is a Super Tuscan, pretty lively and spicy, lots of fun, yet absolutely serious and a force to be reckoned with. George Harrison is definitely a K Vintners syrah… a little funky, very smoky and mysterious, but as deep as the ocean. And Ringo… Ringo is a nicely chilled bottle of Arbor Mist… it will do “the trick” in a pinch, but no one takes it seriously… Cheers!
September 23, 2009

A dumb Rhine king
Funny that I should be listening to APC’s rendition of Imagine today.

The Beetles were never big in my life, so unfortunately I can’t answer this QOTD. Which sucks because it is an awesome QOTD and would’ve been very fun. Can I do Led Zeppelin??
September 17, 2009

Adam J
Sorry for the late comment guys. Anyway…what a great qotd! I have been loving reading everybodys responses! I am not ahuge Beatles person..but here goes,
QOTD: Paul: He seems very familiar and comfortable..like a Mosel Riesling.
John: He seems a little too hyped up and adored…maybe like Napa Cab.
George: I dont know enough about him… kind of like South African wine.
Ringo: He just seemed liked a lot of fun…like a Brachetto d’Acqui.
September 17, 2009

Rowland
qotd: I think of the beatles more as strawberry wine.
September 16, 2009

BurroBoy
The latest issue of Wine Spectator just arrived, and James Laube’s editorial is about his own cellar experience and what to take into consideration…it sure seems like he is only in it for the drinking too, no mention of investment.

Incidentally, Matt Kramer’s piece about everybody being a wine expert these days, and what it actually takes to have capacity for good ‘judgement’…tasting a lot of wines is not enough, he says.
Hmmm, I can’t tell if he is taking a subtle jab at someone we know…

Vayniac ?otd: Is there any place that covers what vineyards and wineries Parker is invested in? Since he can move markets, is this something that we should be concerned about?
September 16, 2009

Phredd
I liked the guest, but overall the show was a very distant overview of the title topic. The takeaway message pretty much seemed to be: If you want to invest in wine, be really, really good at second-guessing Robert Parker. It seems to me there must be more to it than that.

QOTD: I don’t like the Beatles much, I’m afraid. For me, the whole lot is like a mediocre Sangiovese: Lots of promise up front, but in the end, not enough depth. I’m sure many, many people totally disagree with that, but that’s my (musical and oenological) palate.
September 16, 2009

Justin L. Ove
Ringo: Shiraz
Paul: Vouvray
John: Cote Rotie
George: Champagne

Cool question. I liked the guest, but I don’t think I’d take investment advice from a guy that doesn’t really know how to taste wine.
September 15, 2009

DF
Would surely love to know what you thought of the NYT article, which sort of seemed a little like a hatchet job– the NYT has to be loyal to the high-brows I guess.

John: Organic Single Vineyard Cabernet from Santa Cruz Mountains
George: New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc – exotic tropical flavors
Paul: Gewurtztraminer, too sweet for some people but a real winner overall
Ringo: Peruvian Pisco
September 15, 2009

Braden G
Why can’t we just drink the stuff? Seriously… it is partially because of this whole concept that I will likely never have a chance to taste a classed growth Bordeaux – cause it is too damn much money! Maybe next time the Chinese economy collapses some of the newly mega-rich over there will be looking to offload their truckloads of Petrus for pennies on the dollar?
September 15, 2009

Marshall
c’mon gary you gotta be in the mood to do a show after a big JETS win?
September 15, 2009

Erol
Adrian Lenegan was a great asset to this episode. Terrific knowledge an approachable info for those looking to start collecting. I have a feeling that we are on the verge of a terrific collectors vintage (2009).

Let’s be specific:

John: Chateau Le Pin – When on its game can make you cry
Paul: Stag’s Leap – Was great, but now no one knows what’s going on
Ringo: Charles Kruh – Constantly overshadowed but likable
George: Clos des Papes – Underappreciated greatness
September 15, 2009

BurroBoy
Interesting introduction/overview to the wine as investment topic…content was a little thin, but hey, Adrian makes his bucks for sharing strategic info with clients.
With Mr. Terlato’s recent question about moving buyers into higher price wine, this topic takes the discussion even farther out to the edge of “marginal” wine purchasing. Sure there may be a relatively high average cash per case going into it, but what percentage of all wine sales is investment class?
Again, this is a pastime for those with the disposable income to support it, and it is certainly not a primary investment strategy for anyone (or at least should not be). Even though new collectible wine pricing has been pushing up, recent auction data over the last couple of years has been showing a general price slide downwards. (I’m probably never going to invest in wine for profit, but keep an eye on since I am certainly interested in why other folks do it).

That said, I do invest in wine for future savings…
Buying by the case and laying down something that you will not otherwise be able to easily lay hands on in a few years, without serious searching or price increase is not a bad idea. For those that enjoy wine for its consumption potential, we can do really well by cellaring even moderately priced wines that will improve with time and show up at several times the cost on a nice restaurant’s list. There is plenty of nice stuff in the $18 – $30 range that fits this category, and after several years of doing this I can attest to the rewards it produces. The only “special” stuff I have is a few vintages of the Concha Y Toro Don Melchor, that I started picking up at birthday time, and I am certainly looking forward to cracking into that some time in the future.

QOTD: hmmm that is some question…given how each of these guys evolved over time, it might take more than one wine for each.
September 15, 2009

TommyB
I want to be the number 1 comment on the next show – Gary, please e-mail me to let me know when I should log on (UK time) to make sure I;m number 1!
September 15, 2009

Karen Orlandi
Great episode. I’ve been thinking about it all weekend and decided to write my first comment ever on your site. I thought it was particularly interesting to learn more about the UK wine investment market, which is not something we get exposed to often (so thanks!), and compare Provenance’s experiences with that of our own. We own a US-based internet wine store that specializes in rare wines, so we serve primarily customers looking for investment grade or special occasion wines. We notice that most of our clients buy with the intent to “hold and drink”, but that they end up with more wine than their cellar can hold and seek to sell some of it off. Perhaps a more objective, investment-only attitude is something that will catch on more in the future in the US. This thought has now motivated me to research the history of the UK to understand how and when their society turned to a more investment-focused wine culture. I’ll let you know what I find out.
Cheers, Karen
PS – love the QOTD, and i agree with many of the comments made below.
September 15, 2009

Steve Bjerklie
Gary, this gentleman had a lot of knowledge and information to offer us, and I think we didn’t receive half of what we could have. Why? Your interruptions. Please — please! — allow your guests the respect and courtesy of completing their answers. When you have a guest, the show becomes about them, not about you.

QOTD:

John: Astringent, difficult but ultimately magnificent Bordeaux.
Paul: Big, fruity, bombastic California red.
George: Red burgundy, without question. Subtle, introspective.
Ringo: Australian shiraz. Simple, lovable and kind.
September 15, 2009

Phil G
I would love to understand even more how people invest in wine… interesting indeed.
September 15, 2009

Matt
this is a great topic gary, fantastic show.
September 15, 2009

rimarfish
QOTD:
John: Burgundy
Paul: Bordeaux
George: Rhone
Ringo: Brunello
September 15, 2009

hollisdevillo
Nice show.

QOTD:
Paul – Blue Nun
John – Way too young Burgundy
George – Loire White
Ringo – Cali Chard
George Martin – Santa Margherita
Billy Preston – Bourbon
Julian Lennon – Yellow Tail shiraz
Yoko – Sake (aw terrible sterotype)
September 14, 2009

jason carey
Wine as an investment is a sick and twisted mindset. Wine should be for drinking.
This is just another example why Capitalism is going to collapse.
September 14, 2009

MacSteveH
John: a funky, mushroomy Pinot Noir
Paul: Kendall-Jackson Chardonnay
George: a claret
Ringo: Night Train
September 14, 2009

Zach
I like the topic and idea of the show. However, I would have liked a little more in depth information about wine as an investment, the “do’s” and “don’t’s”, the pitfalls to avoid, the inside track to better collecting. Should someone be collecting what they like or something that has more value and that has the potential of increasing? What about some resources for some of the beginners out there? When I started, it took a lot of time trying to find reliable information.

Overall, it left me a little flat at the end. Not to mention this guy is across the pond and really doesn’t deal with US collectors (I’m sure is the majority of your audience).

GV, I think you can revisit this topic and (with your knowledge) add a lot more to it.
September 14, 2009

Gary Vaynerchuk and Adrian Lenegan on Wine as an Investment « Justin Loves Food
[...] Wine Library TV’s Gary Vaynerchuk had Adrian Lenegan of Provenance Fine Wines from England on his show as a guest. They talk about wine as an investment. [...]