EP 967 Brave New World of Wine Part 2

Concluding the tasting with Gary Vaynerchuk and author of Brave New World of Wine, Mark Oldman.

Wines tasted in this episode:

2007 Karl Lawrence Cabernet SauvignonNapa Cabernet
1933 V.J.H. Justino Henriques MALMSEY Madeira

Links mentioned in todays episode.


Latest Comment:

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I usually go to the same place for brunch and sit at the bar. There?s a 2/3rds full bottle of wine that?s been at that level a month of Sundays now; things like that make me reticent to order by the glass. The fact that I?ve seen $20 bottles of wine on lists for $60 makes me reticent to order by the bottle. From now on I think I?m just going to buy a bottle I think I?m likely to enjoy, drop it off with a decanting time and a thank-you-very-much, pay the corkage fee and probably still spend $10-15 less than if I limited myself to their selection.

Tags: cabernet, dessert, Madeira, red, Video, washington state, wine, wines

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  • Anonymous

    Really knowledgeable and fun guest.

    Qotd: I don’t eat out that much, but I actually had an amazing dinner at blue hill at stonebarns, but the som really was pushy on expensive wines

  • Anonymous

    What a GREAT 2 episodes !!! Educational and fun…
    My problem with somms is they are always trying to sell you what THEY like, not caring what I like…many are too aloof and pretentious.
    Mark, I purchased your 2 books off Amazon, any way to get them signed ???
    Neil, Geddy and Alex, seen them 15 times and can’t wait for the next show. The sound those 3 create vs. ZZ top is ridiculous…Hope to meet you sometime !!!

  • http://twitter.com/blindtaster Alexander Haller

    QOTD: I am especially annoyed when a sommelier pours the wine without smelling the cork, making me feel bad whenever I detect a cork flaw. I think a sommelier should always smell the cork or/and try a sip. It doesn’t rule out all cork flaws because some are appearing much later, but it will still reduce the chance of having awkward situations.

    A good

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for an interesting show. QOTD – I used to go to a nice wine bar that had a good selection of wines and some knowledgeable people serving them. To cut back on costs the owner, who was a retired lawyer, decided to do much of the wine explanations himself. He raised prices, brought in wine you could by at the grocery store, and made up things about wines that we knew were wrong. He made a nice place into something that was not fun to go to. The place has had trouble since then and I have not been back in a long time. Luckily there are many other good places to go for wine.

  • Anonymous

    good show, good guest. Gary, I’m glad you finally tasted a vintage Madeira on the show, even if it took a guest bringing it. Now you’ve done 2 Madeiras close together, so I am almost satisfied. Still, though, on an informational level I think it’s a category that you have neglected to address appropriately.

    qotd: I had a wine buyer argue with me when I said a wine was corked. I don’t think he even knew what cork taint was. I was also once at a very nice restaurant that had a Cru Beaujolais listed as a Pinot Noir. At that time I hadn’t memorized all of the crus, so I ordered it expecting red Burgundy. I knew it was gamay when I tasted it, but the bottle was open, it was very good, I knew it would go well with the food, and there wasn’t much else that looked interesting anyway, so we drank it. I mentioned this all to the server towards the end of the meal and she went to question the wine steward. The wine steward, who never even came to the table, insisted that it was PN from Burgundy from a far southern AC. I had our server smell the wine (there was none left in the bottle to pour for her) and even she admitted that it smelled very much like Beaujolais and not at all like Burgundy. I suggested that they do some homework and maybe update their list. Another one that seemed ridiculous was ordering a red wine and having it show up really warm. I mean well above 70 degrees, warm to the touch. Again, at a “nice” restaurant. It tasted fine once I got it into an ice bucket for a few minutes, but what if they had a bottle in that condition for a couple of months? This question should generate a lot of horror stories. I’ve read about many that are far worse than mine.

  • Anonymous

    I do like the idea of a wine server smelling the WINE, but smelling the cork tells one nothing about the condition of the wine. I’ve had many sound wines that were sealed with corks that reeked like TCA, and several corked wines sealed with corks that smelled fine. Smelling the wine is the key. The history behind presenting the cork to the diner was that it happened so the diner knew the wine wasn’t fake. Now it is more so the diner can visually inspect the condition of the cork (to see if the wine might have seeped out of the bottle, etc).

  • Anonymous

    I gotta stick up for us somms, while i too have had a poor experience or two with snobby sommeliers, who i knew more than but didn’t flex as Mark said. I have also had poor service from mechanics, waiters, and dentists. I may choose to spend my money elsewhere but that doesn’t mean I judge all these professionals on one poor experience or never have my car fixed, eat out or teeth cleaned again. While some of somms may be stuck up and pretentious there are far more of us who are kind and simply love being around wine and helping others to find a passion for what we have dedicated our lives to, as a wise man once said “you with a little bit of me, we’re changing the wine world”.

    GV. keep making em and I’ll keep watching em.

  • Anonymous

    QOTD: Great question, really som good stories here…when I think about it I seem to have a good connection with the somm when I like the wines and a not so good one when the wine is off! When going to the better places I have nearly always had good service from the sommelier. I would especially like to mention Ruth’s Hotel in Skagen (Denmark) where we had fantastic service.

    GV, great to have you back churning out shows. I apologize for my inconsistency in the comments.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4VLHQCLY77UH6UOU7NJI54ZOJI jessica

    Awesome guest !!!!!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4VLHQCLY77UH6UOU7NJI54ZOJI jessica

    Awesome guest !!

  • Anonymous

    Great show, and thanks for the nod to Maialino. I’m a sous chef there, and would love for you (Gary) to come in sometime, and you (Mark) to come back!

  • http://twitter.com/sherylintheraw Sheryl

    i had no idea who this guy was before seeing this but i like him. I admire his outlook and I think i might have to adopt it. AND….THIS IS THE FIRST VIDEO I’VE SEEN IN A WHILE WHERE I WANT TO TRY ALL WINES….big ups! your on a roll!

    Answer to question of the day: I’m lucky so far in that i’ve never had a bad time with a sommelier

  • http://twitter.com/sherylintheraw Sheryl

    oh and i really think you should bring Mark back at a later date. Not anytime soon…gotta keep it “fresh”

  • http://twitter.com/sherylintheraw Sheryl

    warm to the touch and you actually drank it?! I would have sent it right back.

  • http://twitter.com/sherylintheraw Sheryl

    your so right, must be why i never have a bad experience with them either

  • Anonymous

    Mark’s got a good grip on the situation. I was unfamiliar w/ him & his work, or books, but glad to discover them here!
    QotD – No real abuses, or misfortunes come to mind from my experience, but then again, as a long time restaurant and food industry vet, and ditto, wine, who doesn’t actually do all that much (ultra)fine dining out, i don’t set myself in a position to be cajoled , or any other manipulations by inexperienced, or rude, or poor service people. I am tolerant of the rather weak quality of service at more modest level and mainstream places, and don’t make a stink about anything, but basically, express my true appreciation of basic attentiveness and courtesy, sans pushy,suggestive, sales pitches, and the like.
    didn’t even read comments, yet, but this recent article by Jordan Mackay speaks alot to the issue:
    http://www.zesterdaily.com/zester-soapbox-articles/777-sommelier-training

  • Anonymous

    acomment, jarred my memory to similar episodes… and in my case, it was not a Somm, but a server, padding a huge check. there was a party for my bro’s B-day, and I’d pre arranged w/ the rest., to bring in a 3L of modest Paveil de Luze, 1999 and a couple of other openers , of which i distinctly remember my 2002 Ramey Hudson Chard. The corkage fees were pre arranged, agreed upon w/ management, and I left the double Magnum at the restaurant a few days in advance, so as to not be totally agitated, and requested that I would like to handle pouring, and a decanter, if possibel, as the place did not actually have a Somm. Mgmt was good, service was thorough, but the server was indiscriminately tacking on every manner of extra and split plate, ad absurdum ,and had no qualms aboutany ethicallity, when i’d spent a day, plus a bunch of phone converstions to set the parameters for a party of a dozen people (which i hate to be a part of , in the first place – but if family wishes, what’re ya gonna do? So a lousy waiter here, too, tried to bring me down, but a few of the party let him have it, It was readjusted, but I am embarrassed to be any part of such scenes, and had actively, as a familiar pro, already tried to prevent and eliminate any such awkwardness. Whereas I fully know to be prepared to pay for what you want, I guess one is rarely, if ever prepared when someone (too often) see it as their objective to flagrantly gouge customers.

  • Anonymous

    Overall, a great two-parter and I have to say that I really started to dig Mark’s demeanor and perception on the wine world more and more throughout both episodes. Kudos to Mark and to GV for seeking this dude out.

    QOTD: I’ve been a wine nerd for a while now, and have worked in a lot of restaurants where I’ve had the opportunity to meet a lot of other great Somms and restaurant peeps. So I’ll admit, when I have a rare night off from work, I usually go where I know the person in charge of the wine program to get service from a friend, which doesn’t usually produce any fun horror stories to tell about.
    HOWEVER, I have seen a few snooty Sommelier situations when I was working with one… who will remain nameless. He would basically not spend any time with them if they weren’t looking for a high-end list item, and even walked away without returning when they politely responded that they weren’t pleased with the selection and would like to try something else. He sent a waiter over to them as if to say that he was done spending time on them. SNOOD! I did not work for that Somm for long.

  • http://twitter.com/Paul_Stagg Paul Stagg

    GREAT couple of episodes; Mark was an engaging guest, I really enjoyed his perspective and his paradigm on wine, it very much mirrors my own (Hess collection is often a go to safe call for me as well, and I loved my visit there a few years ago).

    QOTD: Remarkably, I haven’t had an issue in a restaurant. Being from Baltimore, even our high end places still have our city’s down to earth sensibility. I do find being engaging and friendly when talking to waiters helps, it lets them know that while, yes, I’m dropping a couple Cs on dinner and wine, I’m not above talking Ravens or engaging in a little wine geekery, and never, ever make them feel like a server, but as a valuable partner in the dining experience. That attitude goes a long way.

    When on the road, I tend to look for local flavor. I again identify myself as such, and to a certain extent, put myself in their hands. Generally speaking, that works out just fine, and in some cases, ends up being a stellar experience (at Bouchon in Napa just a few weeks ago, I had a 500ml of a spectacular wine that was perfect with both my wife and my meals, and a great value… all I did was ask for exactly that.)

  • Anonymous

    Should have said, “screw it, I’ll go red, got an Amarone?” (Giant Nerdy Wink)

  • Anonymous

    First of all, great episode – I really enjoyed it. Mark sounds like a great guy who I can really relate to. I’ll have to check out his book. Nice selection of wines so props to Grape Ape as well.

    QOTD: The worst wine experience I had at a restaurant was in Europe when I ordered a very nice 3rd growth Bordeaux and when I tasted it, it was corked. I noted this to the waiter and he had the sommelier taste it. The somm said that the wine was fine (which is was not). I had to argue with the sommelier for several minutes before he would replace the wine. The next bottle was so clrearly better that if there was any doubt originally, there certainly wasn’t anymore. I don’t know how any wine professional could smell wet cardboard in a wine and not say it was corked. Amazing..

  • http://www.falconlara.net oscarfalcon

    Great guest.

    QOTD: One time, a restaurant manager/host mistook my party for delinquents and treated us very badly, just because we were a bit loud while waiting for our table. He was a bit ticked that we were running up a bar tab before we were shown to our table.

  • http://www.eatinghk.blogspot.com/ Andrew D

    Hey Guys

    GREAT SHOW, thanks so much. Mark is one cool dude (though perhaps the photo photo of himself on front of his book is just a touch too much…). Anyway love the chat and love the wines.

    QOTD: 95% of the time I hate buying wine in restaurants here in HK. The overpricing is such a joke that I can usually only bring myself to order the lower priced options as everything is such a rip-off. Again in Hong Kong there’s no real culture of soms in most restaurants, for most people wine is about brand names and image rather than actually taste and interest. For most Hong Kong restaurant goers buying wine is about a couple looking good so it’s simply a matter of buying the msot expensive Baordeaux you can afford. The fact that there’s no soms actually kind of makes me happy as I love a casual, relaxeddinning experience.

    Cheers
    Andrew

  • Anonymous

    No horror story here. Just wanted to comment that this was a great show. I thought it would be a more boring longish episode but it was very interesting. I’ve got to try the Madeira that Mark mentioned.

  • http://twitter.com/manonthemoon68 manonthemoon68

    Turned out to enjoy the 2nd part better than the first.

    QOTD: No real horror stories as we don’t drink a ton of wine out at resturants unless it is a special occasion. Most of the time the worst we get is the look of “these kids” don’t know anything, but that usually goes away once I ask a specific question inregards to the list. Of course I find that the better quality of resturant usually the better wine service IMO. The Inn At Little Washington had the best staff I have ever encountered.

  • Anonymous

    Have had some great restaurant/sommelier experiences, none that were horrible.

    My favorite story is from an excellent resort in Ontario, The Couples Resort, which is in a small town near Algonquin Park. They are great with wine and food, but of course get their staff from local area. One night the young waitress broke the cork in the bottle I ordered, we laughed and told her no worries. She went off to the bar, and brought us a unbroken cork from another bottle, because she had been trained to give the diners a cork to smell. I did manage to keep a straight face and thank her.

  • http://twitter.com/Sun__Art Karel S

    Like this episode. Mark is a cool guy

    QOTD:
    What makes me sad is if a restaurant is not offering any fair priced wine. Selling bad stuff starting from 30$.
    There are a lot places like this. In this case I will not be ordering.

    Fortunately there are lots of other places. Especially a lot of high-end restaurants are doing a good job.
    Mugaritz (http://bit.ly/gsmryg) 2 star Michelin restaurant has interesting wines on the list starting from 15 Euro
    Gresca (http://bit.ly/g24ILZ) the excellent wine we had where almost at cost.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FOQ5KVEB57YQXXUAD2L5JUH6GA Owen

    I bought Mark’s book featured on the show and then saw his first one via Amazon going cheap – so two for the price of one, thanks for the link Mott.

    Re: Somms – beware the younger Sommelier that says “I like this one” – it’s usually soft and juicy and not interesting due to the immaturity of the somm’s palate.

  • Anonymous

    GV, I Loved this show!!!!!!! Mark is such an interesting guy, I may have to get his book because I was so captivated by the stories and that he speaks so well. I wish you would have spoke a little more about this Madeira because there was so much history in one bottle. I am sure I will watch this again because it was so good. Thanks for bringing the “THUNDER”! Mark you are definately a great guy!

  • Anonymous

    GREAT guest, I love Mark O.!

  • Anonymous

    In Vegas at Hugo”s downtown, the 24 yr Sommalier, brought out a German
    table reisling, when I ordered a Kabinet. I brought to his attention after looking over
    the label, He then brought out his lite because I said Kabinett must appear on the
    label. He then just muttered ” It is a Kabinett” German wine law says otherwise as you
    know. Have another show on German Rieslings, the Greatest and most misunderstood
    white wine on earth!!

  • Anonymous

    I respectfully request you DON’T score stuff like the 1933 Malmsey. You’ve done it with older wines before, so why the departure now? Quantifying something so old completely ruins the experience! OR give a scoring range…

    The only experience I’ve ever had with a sommelier is at Blacks in Bethesda, whereby I asked him to help me pick a wine, named a few I’ve tried from that list, what I liked and disliked about them, gave him a tight price range, and told him what I was eating, and he recommended a wine that I have already tried before and offered as an alternative something that was nearly double my provided top price. Not asking for a sommelier again.

  • Anonymous

    QOTD: My first and thankfully so far last bad experience with a sommelier was at Tetsuya in Sydney.. at the time one of the top 50 restaurants in the world (apparently!). All they do is a set degustation and we had the matched wines… I swapped some of my meat dishes with fish dishes which did not seem to be a problem, however when it came to the matched wines, true assembly-line style, they were pouring me the same wines as the rest of the table.. which I could take on a light bodied red but when it came to a full bodied shiraz to go with my delicate fish fillet I asked to have a wine that would suit.. only to be barked at and lectured about how the wine choices were progressive! Insisting that I didn’t think this shiraz would do any wonders in terms of my progression, I got a snooty, ‘well I can pour you some more Chardonnay’ (which I really didn’t want either as it was an oak monster) to ‘well what would you like then’.. really, really awful
    Anyone thinking of going to Tetsuya’s, don’t there are plenty of other places where your money will be better spent!

  • http://www.herrenhof.net/ gottfried

    growing up with no oak is good, I like it…
    always on for the truth of taste :-)

  • Anonymous

    I suspected that all of their red wine would have been that temperature. The wine actually tasted fine once it got to a reasonable temperature. I don’t think I’ll be going back to that restaurant, though. It’s a shame because the food was outstanding.

  • Anonymous

    Nice interaction and drinking a wine from 1933 is awesome! I totaly like the idea of having a party just for that… I will steal this idea and use it as my own!

    QOTD – can’t think of any specific horror stories. Most bad experiances are when I suggest a price range and they jump way above that (when I ask for a $35-40 bottle, don’t suggest a $48 one) or when the server knows nothing about the wine list. I don’t want to know what is popular, I don’t want you to recomend which one you liked when you tried once last year – please tell me about them and which one your recommend… if not, send over someone who can actually help me.

  • http://www.armondmehrabian.com/ armond_m

    Mark is awesome, definitely one of the most interesting people you’ve had on the show. What I like about him is he’s extremely articulate and a very good listener. I have a feeling that we only saw the tip of the iceberg; I think this guy has a lot to offer the wine and food industry. Keep it going Mark! Kudos Gary for bringing him on your show.

  • Anonymous

    Great show!! Mark was a wonderful guest. Ordered two of his first book for gifts.
    QOTD: So far we haven’t had any bad experiences….thankfully!

  • Anonymous

    Great episode, great guest!

    QOTD: there are a lot of really passionate and friendly sommeliers out there, but there are also many that are primarily interested in increasing the average bill.

  • Anonymous

    Great show – the wines didn’t really excite me, but still a really good episode.

    QOTD – any time you mention a budget and the sommelier starts looking down on you. I was at Del Posto and said I wanted an interesting Italian red for about $60-70 and it was like I asked him to find me something for $5.

  • Anonymous

    QOTD: My wife and I went out for dinner to a nice restaurant for my birthday. The waiter comes up and asks us what we would like to drink. Since he was looking at me I started to answer “I’ll have a glass of . . .” then I stopped and motioned to my wife and said “ladies first.” She orders a glass of white wine and the waiter immediately turns around and runs back to the bar like lightning. He returns a few minutes later with an entire bottle of white wine. Being polite I smiled and drank white wine with my birthday steak.

  • Anonymous

    u and the waitress are retarded, trout is a freshwater fish. chuckle chuckle

  • Anonymous

    be a man and speak your mind

  • Anonymous

    were u wasted when you wrote this?

  • DaveAll

    yup. next time I ask for where the beef comes from. haha.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t think I was but rereading the post, it clearly makes no sense.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t understand ordering a very good/expensive bottle of wine at a restaurant, since the wine won’t have time to breath, and you’re forced to drink it when it is far from optimal. That just seems like a waste to me. I try to order the wine early and have it decanted. On a separate note, at Babbo some years ago (I’m afraid it was better back then…), the somm opened the wine at his station, then poured a small amount of the wine (a memorable Montefalco Sagrantino from Bea) in each glass and carefully coated the entire inside of the glass with the wine. It really brought out the aroma of the wine and enhanced the experience.

  • Anonymous

    I usually go to the same place for brunch and sit at the bar. There?s a 2/3rds full bottle of wine that?s been at that level a month of Sundays now; things like that make me reticent to order by the glass. The fact that I?ve seen $20 bottles of wine on lists for $60 makes me reticent to order by the bottle. From now on I think I?m just going to buy a bottle I think I?m likely to enjoy, drop it off with a decanting time and a thank-you-very-much, pay the corkage fee and probably still spend $10-15 less than if I limited myself to their selection.

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